“Find the bodies if you can.”
– John Wayne Gacy, death-row message
John Wayne Gacy’s alter ego, Pogo the Clown
John Wayne Gacy.
Three words synonymous with evil.
Even 32 years after his conviction in Chicago for murdering 33 young men and boys – most of whom were buried in a crawl space under his house – it’s a case our nation will never forget.
And a case so gruesome and shocking, it ranks No. 13 on Time’s Top 25 Crimes of the 20th Century.
But even after Gacy’s 1994 execution, the case is not closed in the minds of many criminal experts who are convinced Gacy killed more than 33 people.
And over the years, investigators and amateur detectives have tried to pinpoint the location of other Gacy victims without success.
But in a stunning development, new information – related to a controversial 1998 Chicago Police Department search for more Gacy victims – strongly suggests that a location in a quiet Chicago family neighborhood is the burial site for additional victims of America’s worst serial killer.
Author’s Note
Story Last Updated On January 16, 2013
“Unfinished Nightmare: The Search for More Victims of John Wayne Gacy” began as an interview story in September 2009 for a graduate journalism class I was taking at Roosevelt University. My subject, Bill Dorsch, was a private detective with Northern Lights Investigative Services and an ex-CPD homicide detective.
While discussing some of his most memorable cases during his 25-year career, Dorsch brought up his ties to a 1998 Chicago Police Department investigation that centered on the search for more victims of serial killer John Wayne Gacy. The search focused on a site near O’Hare International Airport.
Intrigued, I decided to write a story about that investigation and the possibility of undiscovered Gacy victims.
Dorsch was kind enough to grant me several more interviews and access to his Gacy case files. From there, I spent about 10 months thoroughly researching the 1998 CPD Gacy investigation and the original Gacy case that started with his arrest in 1978.
In December 2010, I completed “Unfinished Nightmare.” But at 15,000 words, the story was too long for a magazine and too short for a book. So, I decided to self-publish on ShadowReports.com.
ShadowReports is my start-up site where I publish some of my stories and various creative works. “Unfinished Nightmare” was posted on February 7, 2011.
In March 2011, several Chicago and national media outlets reported on the new developments in the Gacy case – based on my story – but most failed to credit ShadowReports or myself as the source.
However, WGN-TV was one of the few news organizations that did credit ShadowReports with breaking the story in its report, “More Gacy Victims?” – March 17, 2011.
As a result of the ShadowReports article and related follow-up stories, there was renewed interest in the Gacy case, which culminated with the Cook County Sheriff’s Office reopening the case in October 2011.
“Unfinished Nightmare” is based on dozens of interviews and hundreds of sources.
The original Gacy case background for Chapters 1-3 are based on interviews with Des Plaines Police Department investigators, Cook County Sheriff’s Office investigators, Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office investigators and prosecutors at the 1980 trial, and on newspaper, magazine and television stories, and the books Killer Clown (Windsor Publishing 1983) by Terry Sullivan, The Man Who Killed Boys (St. Martin’s Press 1980) by Clifford Linedecker, I Have Lived in the Monster (St. Martin’s Press 1997) by Robert Ressler, and The Chicago Killer (Xlibris 2003) by Joseph Kozenczak and Karen Henrikson.
The first quote by Joseph Kozenczak in Chapter 3 is from his book, The Chicago Killer, but it is presented as a direct quote with permission from the author. The purpose is to enhance story flow. The same device is used for Clifford Linedecker’s quote in Chapter 7, who also granted permission as the author of The Man Who Killed Boys.
Due to the length of the story and to make it easier to read, the article is presented in chapters.
Prologue: A Late-Night Encounter
It was 3 a.m. and Bill Dorsch looked forward to getting home.
As a 31-year old tactical officer in the violent crimes division of the Chicago Police Department, Dorsch had spent the past eight hours working the streets on Chicago’s northwest side.
The 1971 CPD graduate discovered that after a year or two on patrol you get a feel for the streets. There’s a smell and taste distinct to each city block.
And during an average shift in the summer of 1975, Dorsch would drive endlessly up and down the streets observing suspects, snaking his unmarked 1974 green Dodge through dimly lit alleys chasing the bad guys – all his senses on high alert.
He would make between 20 and 30 stops a night ranging from drug deals, prostitution, and gang activity to armed robberies, bar fights, and murder.
Dorsch embraced it all. He especially loved the adrenaline rush he got from a “hot call” – that is, a crime in progress.
But at this moment, Dorsch was exhausted. He couldn’t wait to crawl into bed next to his wife and put the night behind him. His lower back ached, his shoulders slumped and his bloodshot eyes felt heavy as he stared through the windshield of his yellow Plymouth Duster.
But as he was about to turn into the side road by his home near O’Hare Airport, Dorsch noticed something strange. He saw a short, husky man lumbering across the street with a shovel in his hand.
“John, it’s 3 o’clock in the morning, what are you doing?” Dorsch asked the man, whom he now recognized.
“Bill, you know me, not enough hours in the day,” John said with a laugh. “You get it done when you can.”
Dorsch shook his head, smiled and went on his way. He didn’t give the incident much thought until three years later when John Gacy, independent contractor, became John Wayne Gacy, America’s worst serial killer.
And no one could have imagined that 1975 random late-night encounter would be the catalyst for a controversial 1998 search for more Gacy victims and spark a mystery 36 years later about the true depths of Gacy’s murderous rage.
Chapter 1: The Colonel
Named after the legendary movie star, John Wayne Gacy was born in Chicago on St. Patrick’s Day in 1942.
He was close with his two sisters and mom, who called him “Johnny.” And he enjoyed a relatively normal childhood with the exception of a volatile relationship with his alcoholic father, John Wayne Gacy Sr.
In the early 1960s, after dropping out of high school and spending a few years as a drifter, John Jr. took a job managing a men’s clothing store in Springfield, Illinois.
Young Gacy, who possessed a natural talent for sales, excelled in the position. He also began dating pretty co-worker Marlynn Myers.
The couple married in 1964 and moved to Waterloo, Iowa where Gacy managed three KFC restaurants owned by his father-in-law.
Nicknamed “the Colonel,” Gacy was an active member of the community and a leader in the Waterloo Jaycees.
However, in 1968, Gacy’s idyllic middle-class lifestyle and social status were shattered when two Waterloo boys – age 15 and 16 – accused him of sexual assault (one of the boys would later commit suicide).
The felony charge came as a shock to his wife and friends.
“It was all so hard for us to believe,” said Waterloo Motel manager Charles Hill in a 1979 Newsweek interview. “He was such a good doggone Jaycee.”
Gacy, 25, pleaded guilty to sodomy and was sentenced to 10 years in state prison. Marlynn filed for divorce after his conviction. The Colonel would never see his wife or two children again.
Gacy’s 1968 Iowa mug shot
During his incarceration, the stocky 5-foot-8-inch, 210-pound Gacy was a model prisoner and was paroled in June 1970, after serving just 18 months.
He immediately returned to Chicago hoping for a fresh start – but time in prison did little to change John Gacy.
Within 18 months of his release, he was arrested twice by Chicago police for violent sex crimes involving teenage boys. But the charges – unknown to Gacy’s Iowa parole officer – were eventually dropped.
On June 1, 1972, Gacy married his former high-school sweetheart Carole Hoff, who along with her two daughters, moved into Gacy’s house near O’Hare Airport.
Gacy, who now had a second chance at a happy family life, focused on being a good husband and father. And he supported Carole and the young girls by running PDM Contractors – a small, but modestly successful construction company.
As the years went by, it appeared the charismatic and charming Gacy had conquered his demons – he was a respected business owner and neighborhood celebrity who would host elaborate theme parties for hundreds of guests; he did volunteer work and would entertain at children’s parties and hospitals dressed as his alter ego, “Pogo the Clown,” and he was photographed with First Lady Rosalyn Carter during the annual Chicago Polish Day Parade, an event he helped organize.
Gacy with First Lady Rosalyn Carter
But below the surface, a dark and insatiable sexual rage was consuming Gacy. And once again, his life began to unravel.
In 1976, Carole filed for divorce saying she could no longer deal with her husband’s unpredictable moods and obsession with pornography.
And two years later, the high school dropout would find himself at the center of a small-town police investigation that would make his name – John Wayne Gacy – synonymous with evil.
Chapter 2: The Disappearance of Robert Piest
In 1978, 15-year-old Robert Piest, a clean-cut kid who worked at Nisson Pharmacy in Des Plaines, Illinois, went missing around 9 p.m. on Monday, December 11.
Robert Piest with his mom, Elizabeth
And local contractor John Gacy – who was in the store that night scouting a future construction job – was the last person to see him.
When the Des Plaines Police Department checked Gacy’s criminal record the next day, they discovered the 1968 Iowa sodomy charge.
On Wednesday, December 13, the police executed a search warrant for his home, located just outside Chicago city limits.
Gacy’s house circa 1978
“The house had an aura of coldness and neglect and it didn’t take us long to realize that Gacy lived in a world of deviant fantasies embellished through books, tapes, all kinds of kinky aids, and drugs,” says Joe Kozenczak, the former Des Plaines police lieutenant who was in charge of the Gacy investigation.
“I remember just before checking out the crawl space, I had an image of finding Rob Piest down there, bound but still alive,” Kozenczak continues. “But we found absolutely nothing. I looked around for signs of a fresh grave, but the ground was like settled clay, and there was no indication it had been disturbed. There was nothing – only the usual smell of a damp basement.”
After the three-hour search, which didn’t turn up any obvious incriminating evidence, Kozenczak’s team returned to headquarters to run tests on the items they collected.
During their review, the detectives discovered two key pieces of evidence – a ring that belonged to another missing teenager and a receipt for a roll of film that a girlfriend of Piest’s had put in his jacket.
On Thursday, December 21, authorities – armed with this new evidence and a tip from a Gacy employee that the crawl space might contain bodies – obtained a second search warrant for Gacy’s home.
Kozenczak – who described Gacy as unshaven, unwashed, and usually dressed in rumpled clothes that made him look like the definition of a slob – says he started to realize the possible enormity of the case just days before the second search of Gacy’s house.
“We never suspected we were in the middle of a serial murder case,” recalls Kozenczak, whose son was a sophomore in the same class as Piest at Maine West High School in Des Plaines.
“We approached it as a missing persons investigation. We were just looking for one kid,” Kozenczak says. “But as the case evolved, we pieced together evidence and discovered other reports of missing kids that had ties to Gacy. And we realized we might find more than one body buried under the house.”
Around eight o’ clock Thursday night, less than an hour after they began digging in the 40-foot crawl space under Gacy’s home, investigators uncovered the first body.
And later that night at the Des Plaines police station, Gacy, 36, confessed that for six years starting in January 1972, he lured young men and boys to his home for sex – then tortured and strangled them.
Gacy, who possessed an above-average IQ, explained to the stunned officers how he would lure a victim into his car by pretending to be policeman “Jack Hanley,” or by promising a high-paying construction job.
After Gacy got his target home, he would offer alcohol and drugs and eventually bring out a pair of trick handcuffs he used in his clown act. Gacy would put them on and quickly get free. He would then dare the boy to try it.
Once his victim was securely manacled, Gacy would tell him the trick was to have the key. He would then take his time raping and torturing the boy before eventually killing him.
And adding to the morbid nature of his crime, Gacy would sometimes have sex with the corpse and sleep with it for a day or two before disposing of the body.
Gacy, who was fond of saying “a clown can get away with murder,” went on to make voluntary confessions to more than 30 murders.
He also drew a detailed map to the location of 27 shallow graves beneath his house, which he called his “burial grounds,” and one each under the concrete in his garage and patio.
In addition, he admitted to dumping four other victims – including Robert Piest – into the Des Plaines River.
Gacy’s mug shot the night he was arrested
During the dig, investigators discovered the trenches in the crawlspace were about three feet wide, six feet long and two feet deep and were dug by Gacy and his crew – who thought the holes were for a drainage problem.
And because Gacy murdered some of his employees, it’s likely a few of them actually dug their own grave.
By February 1979, the crawlspace excavation uncovered 27 bodies.
The crawlspace during the excavation
“One of the most disturbing aspects of the case was the fact that some of these kids were probably buried alive,” says Rafael Tovar, one of the 10 officers who worked on the excavation team. ”And every day parents were devastated, receiving the ultimate bad news that their kid was dead. Families could no longer hold out hope that their missing loved one might still be alive.”
In April 1979, the body of Robert Piest was found along the banks of the Illinois River. Gacy confessed he strangled Piest in his home shortly after abducting him from the Nisson Pharmacy parking lot.
Gacy also said Piest’s body was still in his house when four Des Plaines police officers questioned him the next day in his living room.
After concluding their investigation, the police charged Gacy with 33 murders – 27 in the crawlspace, one each in the garage and patio, and four in the river. And authorities discovered all his victims were young men in their early teens to early 20s.
Chapter 3: One Less Cub’s Fan
Gacy’s trial began on Feb. 6, 1980, in the Cook County Criminal Courts Building in Chicago and lasted just five weeks. The jury took only two hours to find him guilty on all 33 counts of murder.
The next day, Gacy was sentenced to death by electrocution and sent to Menard Correctional Center, a prison located in southern Illinois. He would remain there for 14 years until he was transported to Stateville Correctional Center for execution.
Gacy, who began a campaign of innocence after his trial, spent much of his time in prison working on appeals, playing cards, writing letters and painting.
His works – which brought in sales of over $100,000 from such collectors as Johnny Depp and John Waters – included clowns, the Seven Dwarfs, Jesus, Hitler, Elvis and fellow serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer.
A Gacy painting of Pogo the Clown
During his time on death row, Gacy never expressed a hint of remorse for his crimes and called his victims “a bunch of worthless little queers and punks,” and joked, “I should never have been convicted of anything more serious than running a cemetery without a license.”
Robert Ressler, a retired FBI profiler who has interviewed more than 50 serial killers including Gacy, said in his book, I Have Lived In The Monster (St. Martin’s Press 1997), he found it perverse that Gacy was allowed to keep a scrapbook of his victims while in prison.
“The authorities permitted Gacy to collect photos of the murdered young men as part of gathering material for his own defense,” said Ressler, who coined the term “serial killer” in the 1970s. “But the way he kept these photos in his cell, in a scrapbook, had – to me – far darker implications.
“For Gacy, these photos were pornographic,” Ressler continued in his book. “He could look at them and relive his crimes, the way he had killed each and every one of them, and become sexually excited. His having these materials in his cell was one last instance in which this paranoid murderer was able to con the authorities.”
On May 9, 1994, the 52 year-old diehard Cubs fan sat down for his final meal: a dozen deep-fried shrimp, a bucket of original recipe KFC chicken, French fries, a Coke and a pound of fresh strawberries.
As midnight approached, a crowd had gathered outside the Stateville prison – located about 40 miles southwest of Chicago – and chanted slogans such as “Death to the clown” and “We want the body.”
Inside, there were 41 witnesses to the execution. None of the victims’ families were allowed to attend.
British journalist William Cash, one of the 41 in attendance, described the last moments of Gacy’s life for a story in the Daily Mail:
As he was wheeled into the chamber, he made no eye contact. Almost his last sight of this world was an Exit sign over the door. As the poison began to work – a deadly cocktail of sodium pentathol, pancuronium bromide and potassium chloride – there was a reflex jerk of his head, followed by a loud snort. For three minutes, his puggish, wide-open eyes bulged in their sockets. His flabby belly heaved in and out.
Then, as if in a surreal black pantomime, an official stepped calmly forward and closed the theatre-like curtains.
What had happened, it seems, is that the Illinois State death machine had malfunctioned. A technician had to replace the tubing because some of the poison had ‘gelled.’ When the curtains reopened, Gacy had turned purple and was still twitching. Instead of taking 10 minutes to execute him, it took nearly 20. He was finally pronounced dead at 12:58 am.
But even after Gacy’s execution, the case is not closed in the minds of many criminal experts who are convinced Gacy left undiscovered victims.
Chapter 4: More Victims?
“There’s no reason to believe Gacy didn’t kill 100 people,” says former Gacy prosecutor Terry Sullivan, who called Gacy the “worst of all murderers” and “an evil, vile, diabolical, cunning man” at his 1980 trial. “We knew there were 33, but in my mind I’m pretty certain he had other victims.”
According to Rafael Tovar, a former Des Plaines police officer who helped break the case in 1978, Gacy would only give up information authorities already knew about or were going to find out anyway.
“Once he knew that we found bodies in the crawl space, he said, ‘I don’t want you guys to mess up my house. I’ll draw you a map where they all are.’ And he did,” Tovar recalls. “But if you asked Gacy about something he didn’t think you knew about, he was coy and would not cooperate.”
Tovar – who was the liaison for the Des Plaines Police Department when the Cook County Sheriff’s Office took over the investigation – says he remembers his last conversation with Gacy, which took place during a 45-minute car ride while he was transferring Gacy from the Des Plaines police station to a Cook County jail:
Tovar: John, we’ve been running around and I don’t want to be running around forever. How many bodies are we looking for?
Gacy: Well, you know, I told my lawyers there’s about 30, 30 some odd. You know what, the number 45 sounds really good.
Tovar: Really.
Gacy: Yeah, sounds really good.
Tovar: Well, where are the rest of them?
Gacy: That’s for you to find out.
“So, I honestly believe there are more victims,” Tovar says. “But, where and how many? Who knows?”
Gacy himself challenged investigators when he scrawled the haunting message, “Find the bodies if you can,” on the back of a death-row painting depicting an Arkansas farmhouse.
Joe Kozenczak, the former Des Plaines police lieutenant who was in charge of the 1978 Gacy investigation, says he viewed the painting and doesn’t doubt the sincerity of Gacy’s words.
“I am convinced Gacy killed a lot more than 33 people,” says Kozenczak, who served on a federal task force that was responsible for establishing the first set of guidelines for investigating serial killings in the U.S. “I think there are other victims out there, not only in the Chicago area but other parts of the country.”
Legendary FBI profiler and Chicago native Robert Ressler – whose real life experiences have been the inspiration for several books and movies including Silence of the Lambs and Copycat – said in his book, I Have Lived In The Monster (St. Martin’s Press 1997), “Gacy is responsible for far more homicides, in many more locations throughout the country, than those for which he was convicted. But the prosecutorial authorities in Illinois refuse to acknowledge this possibility.”
Ressler, who had several interviews with Gacy over the years, also said in the book, The Chicago Killer (Xlibris 2003), that Gacy’s final statement to him was, “Why should I play ball with the State of Illinois that wants to kill me.”
For the record, Gacy, “a brilliant manipulator” and a “serial liar” according to Ressler, never admitted or denied committing other homicides.
And remarkably, Gacy claimed his 1978 confession at the Des Plaines police station never happened and often called himself, “the 34th victim.”
“People don’t want to know the truth,” Gacy told Chicago CBS 2 television news anchor Walter Jacobson in a 1992 death-row interview. “Then fine, then go ahead and kill me, but vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord, because you will have executed somebody that didn’t commit the crime.”
Serial killer expert Mark Safarik – a former FBI profiler and current executive director of Forensic Behavioral Services International in Virginia – says such denials are common among serial killers.
“It’s the ultimate control when you’re obviously guilty to say you’re innocent, that you’re executing the wrong person,” explains Safarik, who also serves as a consultant for CSI: Las Vegas. “Gacy was playing with people. It’s what he liked to do. It was all part of the game. It was a way for him to continue his control and manipulate the system.”
Safarik, who spent 12 of his 23 years at the FBI working as a senior profiler, also says most serial killers don’t give up all their victims and if Gacy had committed other murders it makes sense he didn’t talk about them.
“Not giving up other victims runs true to his pattern because Gacy denied guilt for the original homicides, so why would he admit to additional ones that are unknown. His behavior was consistent,” Safarik says.
Gacy’s defense attorney Robert Motta told Newsweek in 1998 that hypothetically speaking about someone with a personality like Gacy’s, “It’s certainly possible there are more victims, not only here but in other parts of the country.”
So, if the experts are correct in believing Gacy was responsible for more than 33 murders, where did he dispose of the bodies?
Chapter 5: Gacy-Miami Part One
Over the years, criminal specialists and amateur detectives have tried to pinpoint the location of additional Gacy victims without success. And with Gacy’s execution in 1994, it seemed a hopeless pursuit.
But, in November of 1998, the Chicago Police Department – acting on a tip from the Chicago-watchdog group Better Government Association (BGA) – investigated a property located in a quiet blue-collar neighborhood near O’Hare Airport.
According to several 1998 media reports, the West Miami Avenue apartment building property seemed like a logical site for more Gacy victims – former Chicago police detective Bill Dorsch saw Gacy there in 1975 carrying a shovel at 3 a.m; Gacy’s mom, Marion Elaine Gacy, had lived in the building for a period of time in the ’70s; and a Better Government Association partial radar scan of the parking lot and front yard, suggested possible human remains.
So, on the morning of Monday, November 23, 1998 – with a sky full of helicopters and camera crews perched on nearby rooftops – the CPD sealed off the area around the Miami Avenue residential building, erected a white tent in the front yard, and began a ground scan radar survey of the property.
“We are not taking a position that there is anything here, or there isn’t,” CPD Cmdr. John Thomas told a CNN reporter covering the event. “Rather we’re taking a position that it is our obligation as police officers to conduct this investigation as responsibly as we can.”
CNN and other news outlets would broadcast live reports throughout the day. And Thomas would provide updates to the 75 or so media members standing outside the barricade – about 35 yards away from the fenced-in yard.
In the afternoon – based on the results of the morning ground scan, which Thomas said found two key spots in the soft earth – the CPD dug two holes. And although the dig was sheltered from public view by the tent, the crowd anxiously awaited the results.
However, after a two-week Super Bowl type media circus, Cmdr. Thomas ended the late-afternoon drama with his last progress report.
“We found a glass marble, a flattened sauce pan, a two and a half-foot length of wire, a large chunk of concrete and a preponderance of roots in both holes,” said Thomas, who would later hold the No. 2 job in the department. “We are done. This part of the investigation is now closed.”
Asked if the search represented the final chapter in the Gacy story, Thomas – who passed away unexpectedly in 2003 at age 53 – said, “It does as far as the Miami address is concerned.”
The media and the crowds present at the dig on that cold November day, and the millions around the world who followed the investigation on TV and in the papers, couldn’t help but feel a little disappointed – the whole thing was much ado about nothing.
But years later – amid allegations that the CPD was “committed to not finding anything,” and the investigation was simply a “dog and pony show to satisfy the media,” and after taking a closer look at the days leading up to the CPD Miami dig on November 23, 1998 – questions still linger about the significance of the Miami Avenue site and its role in the possibly unfinished horror story authored by John Wayne Gacy.
Chapter 6: Gacy-Miami Part Two
Coincidentally, the origins of the 1998 CPD Gacy-Miami investigation are connected with another famous Chicago-area mass murder known as the Brown’s Chicken massacre.
On January 8, 1993, two men robbed and murdered seven employees at the Brown’s Chicken restaurant in Palatine, Illinois, a Chicago northwest suburb.
The case remained unsolved for nearly nine years until Juan Luna and James Degorski were charged with the crimes in 2002. Both were eventually found guilty and received life sentences.
In 1997, the Better Government Association – concerned about the Palatine Police Department’s inability to solve the crimes – commissioned a study into the department’s progress and later released a report that determined police “radically mishandled the case.”
But before the Brown’s Chicken report was finalized, the BGA met with private investigator Bill Dorsch to discuss its findings.
Dorsch, who served as a CPD officer from 1970-1994, remembers meeting with BGA chief investigator Mike Lyons and CBS investigative producer Doug Longhini at the BGA’s downtown Chicago office.
“After a while, we went across the street on Michigan Avenue and had something to eat,” recalls Dorsch, who currently heads Chicago-based NLIS Investigations. “We talked about some cases I’d worked on over the years and I eventually got around to telling them about knowing Gacy and seeing him in 1975 at the Miami address around 3 a.m. holding a shovel.
“I told them I reported the information to the Cook County Sheriff’s Office after Gacy’s arrest in 1978, but found out many years later that they never investigated the site,” Dorsch says.
Intrigued by Dorsch’s story, the BGA eventually decided to hire US Radar, a New Jersey-based company that specialized in ground-penetrating radar.
On October 7, 1998, US Radar president Ron LaBarca used a sub-surface radar device, which resembles a snow blower, to conduct a non-invasive partial ground scan of the small blacktop parking lot and front yard at the Miami Avenue apartment building.
After receiving the results of the earth X-ray, which LaBarca said were “compelling,” the BGA turned the information over to the CPD.
Dorsch, who was now the main contact between the BGA and the CPD, also put together a four-page report that summarized events to that point and included notes on Gacy’s suspicious activity at the Miami address back in the ’70s.
Dorsch says he intended his report to be used as a starting point for the CPD to obtain a search warrant if necessary for the Miami property.
After receiving the information from the BGA and Dorsch, the CPD set up a meeting with Dorsch at IFPC Worldwide, a private security and investigation services firm in Chicago.
IFPC was run by Jim Fruin, a 30-year veteran of the Chicago Police Department who retired as a detective division commander in 1991.
Dorsch, who had worked as a homicide detective under Fruin, joined IFPC in June of 1998 as a private detective.
Fruin says he encouraged Dorsch to work with the CPD on the Gacy-Miami investigation because he thought it was a high-profile case that would be good publicity for IFPC.
Fruin also told Dorsch he spoke with his friend – CPD First Deputy Supt. John Townsend, the department’s second-in-command – about the BGA’s preliminary investigation of the Miami site, and Townsend, who passed away in 2004, was very supportive.
Dorsch, who has boxes of files from previous cases he’s worked on over the years, kept detailed notes of the meeting – which was held on Wednesday, October 28, 1998.
The following account – which also includes subsequent meetings and events leading up to the CPD dig on November 23, 1998, at the Miami Avenue property – is based primarily on Dorsch reading his notes over the course of several interviews.
***
Present at the first meeting were Dorsch and Chicago Police Department officers Sgt. Frank Cappitelli, Detective Bob Rutherford, Detective Eddie Dickinson, Lt. Ralph Barganski and Cmdr. John Thomas.
IFPC president Jim Fruin, BGA chief investigator Mike Lyons and Rocky Rinaldi, a former CPD homicide sergeant who worked at IFPC and was involved with the case, stayed downstairs while Dorsch and the others met in a second floor IFPC conference room.
“We all took our seat at a large table,” says Dorsch, who received the Police Officer of the Year award twice from the Chicago Chamber of Commerce. “I had a four-page report which I distributed to each of them. This included all the information I considered pertinent to bringing them up to speed on the new Gacy information.”
After about 10 minutes, Dorsch asked if there were any questions. And based on his notes, Dorsch says he had the following conversation with Sgt. Cappitelli:
Cappitelli: Who else knows about this?
Dorsch: If you mean who else have I told this to over the past 20 years, then a lot of people have heard the story Frank.
Cappitelli: No, I mean who else knows about our meeting with you?
Dorsch: No one, except the BGA and our IFPC office.
Cappitelli: What do you intend to do now?
Dorsch: I’m just giving you the information for your review and you can contact the radar company to discuss the findings. This is possibly very important evidence that may necessitate that the site be scanned in the future.
Cappitelli: What’s the agenda of the BGA?
Dorsch: They’re not a threat. They’re merely assisting by paying for the radar scan and we are presenting this as new evidence for your review. They do not have any agenda and are not looking to create a problem for anyone.
“At that, Frank, speaking for the others, arose and said that they would be in touch with me,” recalls Dorsch, who now began to sense there might be a problem.
Around noon on Monday, November 9, a second meeting was held. And again it took place at the IFPC office.
Present were Dorsch, Cappitelli, Rutherford, Dickinson, Barganski, and Cook County assistant state’s attorney Anna Demacopoulos. Cmdr. John Thomas, who was at the first meeting, did not attend.
Dorsch says he looked forward to talking with assistant state’s attorney Demacopoulos because the pair had worked together on past homicide cases that resulted in convictions.
But before entering the second floor conference room, Dorsch’s optimism quickly faded.
“I pulled Rutherford aside before we went up and asked him to fill me in on what they had learned. Rutherford said, ‘Bill, we are here to take notes. We were told not to talk to you.’ Dickinson stood next to us and said nothing. Now I really knew there was a problem,” says Dorsch, who received 12 department commendations and 148 honorable mentions during his 25-year career with the CPD.
“After we sat down in the conference room, I asked Anna Demacopoulos where she wanted to start,” Dorsch says. “She said I should start wherever I wanted. So I said why don’t we start with the four-page report that I’d given the police. She said, ‘I’ve already seen that bullshit. What I want to know is what was the date you called the Cook County Sheriff’s Department and who did you talk to?’”
Dorsch says that Demacopoulos’s tone, body language and her question along with the fact that the others sat there silently told him that he was in for trouble. “It was obvious to me that someone, somewhere was having a big problem with this Gacy information,” Dorsch recalls.
Dorsch says he took a deep breath and looked around the table and said, “‘Anna, this happened in December of ’78. The news was reporting a man, who lived on Summerdale, had been arrested for murder. In the first few days, reports were coming in that this man was an independent contractor. And my wife and I realized this was John Gacy.’”
Dorsch, who once had dinner at Gacy’s house because his wife was a business associate of Gacy’s, says he told Demacopoulos that he called the Cook County Sheriff’s Department within a few days after Gacy’s arrest to report the 1975 late-night shovel encounter at the Miami address – but he didn’t remember the exact date of the call and could only confirm that he spoke with a male officer.
Dorsch says Demacopoulos, currently a Cook County Circuit Court judge, pressed him on the name of the person he spoke with and the date of the call.
“I said something like, ‘Anna in the mid ’80s, I had two guys come to my house every day. They tore up my old roof and replaced it with a new one. They were up there for days. I wrote them a check for $5,000 and I don’t remember their names. There’s no reason to treat me like this,’” Dorsch said to Demacopoulos, who did not return calls or emails seeking comment.
After the meeting, Dorsch says he had a sick feeling in his stomach as he felt things were turning against him.
“I had thought – as Jim Fruin had already told me – that Townsend said we could expect nothing but cooperation from the Chicago Police Department,” Dorsch says. “And I’m not just an average citizen giving this information, I had been one of them. And Rutherford was a friend. He had stayed at my house in Wisconsin with his family for two weeks. And now, he won’t even talk to me?”
A request to interview Rutherford, who is a detective with the Chicago Police Department, was declined by the CPD’s Office of News Affairs.
***
The next day – Tuesday, November 10, 1998 – Dorsch says things went from bad to worse after receiving a 9:30 p.m. phone call from Jim Fruin’s wife, Gloria.
And based on his notes, Dorsch says he had the following conversation with Gloria Fruin:
Gloria: Jim wanted me to call you to warn you.
Dorsch: Warn me about what?
Gloria: The Tribune is running the O’Brien Gacy story tomorrow.
Dorsch: Gloria, I told Jim we didn’t want this made public yet. It’s not good for my reputation, Jim’s reputation and his company.
Gloria: Jim said that he and the company aren’t going to be mentioned.
John O’Brien, a well-known Chicago Tribune crime reporter who passed away in 2003, met with Jim Fruin at IFPC’s office on November 5th.
The pair were good friends and Fruin says he might have shared some details of the Gacy-Miami investigation with O’Brien. But if he did, it was with the understanding that O’Brien would sit on the news until he gave him the OK.
However, before Fruin gave him the OK, the Tribune ran O’Brien’s story six days later on November 11, 1998.
Dorsch says he was furious.
“I wanted to keep things quiet because I didn’t want to create a problem for the Miami building owner and I didn’t want the search to become like the Geraldo Rivera Al Capone’s vault fiasco,” Dorsch says. “But after the Tribune story comes out, all hell breaks loose.
“The media goes to the Chicago Police Department and the CPD tells them ‘Bill Dorsch is an experienced detective. He never told us about the incident with Gacy. Why did he keep it a secret all these years?’ Bullshit. Bullshit all the way. Of course, I told everyone back then. And now they’re implying I’m making this up,” Dorsch says.
Mike Lyons, who was the chief investigator for the Better Government Association from 1979-2000, says after the story was leaked to O’Brien, the integrity of the Gacy-Miami investigation was fatally compromised.
“Disaster is an understated word when it comes to the leak,” says Lyons, a former Vietnam combat correspondent. “I didn’t appreciate the magnitude of the problem until a day or two after the story ran because it wasn’t on the front page – it was not that big a story. But it unleashed a media fury, and there was nowhere to go from there. It literally killed the investigation.”
After the Tribune article was published, Dorsch says he was swamped with requests for interviews.
He turned all of them down except two – he spoke with Chicago CBS 2 reporter Carol Marin and Newsweek reporter John McCormick on November 13, 1998.
Dorsch says he told them about the 3 a.m. shovel incident with Gacy in 1975 and how he reported the information to authorities after learning of Gacy’s arrest.
He also said his call probably slipped through the cracks due to the enormity of the Gacy investigation, but at the time he just gave the facts and went on with his life – he had cases of his own to worry about and assumed his tip would be checked out.
Dorsch added it wasn’t until many years later that he learned the Cook County Sheriff’s Office didn’t follow up on his tip.
Meanwhile, the media reported the Gacy-Miami building connection like it was the third-act twist of a James Patterson novel.
And in the 12 days between the O’Brien Tribune story on November 11, and the CPD dig on November 23, serial killer John Wayne Gacy was once again headline news.
And the new story angle, “Are there more Gacy victims?” played not only in Chicago, but across the globe.
The Better Government Association said they received more than 250 calls from news outlets around the world.
“I never thought of it as a huge case, so I was surprised by the media reaction,” says Terry Brunner, the executive director of the BGA at the time. ”I thought that Gacy was kind of a dead issue. I thought we had some interesting information and it seemed like a logical case to get involved with, but I was stunned by the media frenzy.”
The media spotlight was intense and former BGA chief investigator Mike Lyons says there was a tremendous amount of pressure on the CPD to do something.
“We are still interviewing people,” police spokeswoman Lauri Sanders told the Associated Press the day the O’Brien Tribune article came out.
And a week later on November 18, police spokesman Officer Cesar Guzman announced to the media that a dig was planned for Monday, November 23, but the Miami Avenue site would be barricaded from the public.
“If they do find anything that’s down there, it’s a crime scene, and its got to be treated with kid gloves,” Guzman said. “The last thing we want to do is have a circus.”
Lyons, who says he distanced himself from the Gacy-Miami investigation after the Tribune story came out because “nothing was under our control from that point onward,” believes the widespread media coverage backed the CPD into a corner.
“Once the story got into the Tribune, the CPD had no options at all – they had to dig holes,” Lyons says. “The police can’t say ‘Well gee, we’re not going to do anything.’ You can’t take an adversarial position with the media and the BGA and expect that it’s going to work out, especially when we’ve got so much suggestive evidence.
“I think they went and did it because they figured they had to do something. You have to feed the lions no matter what. So that’s what they did,” Lyons says.
Also during this time, Dorsch claims he began receiving indirect threats from CPD officials who would use mutual friends to deliver the warnings.
Dorsch says Rocky Rinaldi – the former CPD homicide sergeant who worked with Dorsch at IFPC – was usually the go-between.
“Rocky and I had a very good friendship through our time working together over the years,” Dorsch says. ”But as good as it was, I always knew that Rocky had friendships that were more important to him because they were with the higher command – Townsend, Daley, that group, the people on top. Those were his better friends.
“One day Rocky told me, ‘If you show up on the day of the dig, they are going to arrest you.’ I said, ‘Arrest me for what? For wanting to help? For being involved in this?’ I guess they didn’t want me to talk to anybody, to reporters,” Dorsch says.
Dorsch adds that he didn’t attend the November 23 Miami dig, but not because of the threats.
“At that point, I felt the investigation had evolved into a dog and pony show to satisfy the media,” Dorsch says. “And I knew what the headlines would be – ‘Waste Of Time,’ ‘CPD Angry That Detective Created Hoax.’ The whole thing was staged.”
***
Dorsch’s cloak-and-dagger account of the days leading up to the CPD Miami dig might seem a bit exaggerated. And Dorsch’s former CPD boss Sgt. Frank Cappitelli, who was in charge of the Gacy-Miami investigation, says, “Bill Dorsch was a good detective, but he may have bought into the story too much. Sometimes you can lose perspective on a case.”
But a June 6, 2008, email from now retired Rocky Rinaldi to former friend Dorsch, who initially emailed Rinaldi asking about inside information he may possess about the 1998 Gacy-Miami investigation, seems to add weight to Dorsch’s story.
“…I ignored advice from high ranking police department bosses to keep away from you… Information given to me regarding Gacy was privileged and I am not about to compromise my confidentiality that I was entrusted with by my very good friends.”
Rinaldi responded to a request for an interview by sending a February 3, 2010 email that stated in part:
“…Dorsch while he was a fair investigator, had the propensity to embellish his reports, while he never revealed how he obtained the information that Gacy buried bodies at the Miami address location, other than Gacy may have worked at that location as a janitor, however, I am satisfied that there never was any bodies buried and/or secreted at this location.”
“I have spent 34 years on the Chicago Police Department, twenty eight of those years in the homicide division and I stake my reputation on the fact that there were no bodies buried at the Miami address by Gacy or anyone else.”
Former Better Government Association executive director Terry Brunner – who served as an Assistant U.S. Attorney in Chicago before leading the U.S. Department of Justice organized crime units in Cleveland and Pittsburgh – says he believes Dorsch and feels he was viewed as a potential threat by the CPD and the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office.
“The Chicago Police Department and the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office are riddled with politics so their reaction was probably, ‘What does Dorsch really want here? This is an old case – dead and buried – everybody forgot about it – why is he stirring up trouble here?’” Brunner says.
“They can’t believe you have truly independent people that are just calling the shots straight,” Brunner continues. “This is typical to the Chicago Police Department circle-the-wagons mentality. And they don’t need to be told this could hurt politically with the mayor. They know that. It’s like a no-huddle offense.”
But why is Dorsch talking about it now?
“After the thing, I was so fed up with it,” Dorsch says. “I wanted to distance myself from the investigation because the whole thing turned political. And I was being tagged as the cause of everything. But now I want this out there. I’m 67 years old. I could go to my grave and nobody would ever know what happened there. Or I can make it known.”
What Dorsch wants known is not only his story, but information he believes supports his allegations.
US Radar president Ron LaBarca, whose company was brought in by the Chicago Police Department to scan the Miami property for the November 23, 1998 Gacy dig, wrote a letter to Bill Dorsch voicing his frustration with the CPD’s investigation of the site.
It references Dr. Jon Dittmer, a ground scan expert who was working with LaBarca that day, Frank Cappitelli, the CPD sergeant assigned to the investigation, and the executive director of the Better Government Association Terry Brunner.
Below is a copy of the May 10, 1999 letter.
May 10, 1999
Dear Bill,
Per our conversation, I am grateful for the opportunity to discuss some of the questions that remain unanswered and what information we can offer should the West Miami Street site become available for a proper investigation.
I have looked at the archived radar data twice since that debacle. The first time was a week later when I learned it was on that famous day in Chicago (November 23, 1998) when Jon Dittmer told Frank Cappitelli and later, Terence Bruner that we should “forget it,” he said that because “it was really no way to conduct a proper investigation” and the Chicago authorities were “committed to not finding anything.”
I can’t emphasize enough the fact that we, (Dr. Jon Dittmer and myself) were basically thrown into a situation where the protocols for a proper forensic investigation were clearly thrown out the window.
Because of this, Jon felt we were wasting our time and the longer we spent out there, the worse it could potentially be for us. The main deviation for proper investigation protocol was that any subsurface anomaly from our data should have been excavated no matter how slight. Instead as Jon asked the following, “Do you realize you are standing on a front lawn with well over 100 cameras pointed at you while you negotiated, then pleaded with the Chicago police sergeant to dig for more than two holes.”
In a proper investigation, the authorities would have been more willing to excavate any possibility. It still strikes me as quite odd that we suspect at least seven and as many as seventeen potential targets in the front lawn and the parking area and the Chicago PD would only let us pick two. Hey, maybe all of them are nothing, but at least then they would know. Instead we all are wondering what might have been discovered had they investigated the property properly.
The next time I looked at the data it was several months later when a reporter started asking me some questions that rekindled the frustration we encountered with this investigation. As a result, I have pretty good knowledge of this data as well as more than a few questions I would like answered.
The data reveals some pretty compelling evidence that would send any investigation team to the hardware store for shovels. I can’t help but wonder if this data might fetch a good buck or two somehow on the Internet.
Another question I’d like answered was, “why is it that the Chicago PD personnel nearly jumped out of their skin when we went around the back of the building (opposite W. Miami) and kept repeating over and over that back there was not part of the deal?” What deal?
I have many more questions with respect to this investigation but I suppose the answers lie with members of a political circle somewhere. Should we ever get the opportunity to properly complete this investigation, then and only then will we get the answers.
Bill, you once you told me that you didn’t really care whether there were victims buried at this site or not, you just wanted to know definitely yes or definitely no. Well, like or not, I got caught up in your enthusiasm and with some of the other evidence we were working with, I was anxious to resolve this thing. Well here we are, after all that, we still don’t have any answers, and I find it more than just a little aggravating facing the possibility that we may never know.
Let me say this much, I have the radar data from this investigation and actually Bill, I am about 89 per cent sure that I have the answer, unfortunately it doesn’t mean a thing until someone decides to dig.
I will be standing by to assist you in any way that might bring this investigation to a close once and for all. This company is solidly behind your efforts and will gladly commit any available resources to you for the proper conclusion to the investigation of the West Miami Street property.
Sincerely,
Ron LaBarca
***
LaBarca says US Radar has worked with the FBI and many other law enforcement agencies around the world on forensic investigations including Ground Zero after 9/11, but he and colleague Dr. Jon Dittmer – who has a Ph.D. in geophysics – were baffled by the 1998 CPD Gacy-Miami investigation.
“The CPD did a great job of coordinating the investigation at the Miami site,” LaBarca says. “But, we’ve done many similar type of forensic investigations both before and after the Chicago dig and we’ve never experienced the complications we encountered on that day.”
However, former CPD Sgt. Frank Cappitelli, who received numerous commendations and awards including the Cook County Sheriff’s Police “Award of Merit” during his 31-year career with the CPD, says that US Radar’s allegation that the CPD was “committed to not finding anything” is “absolutely not true.”
“If the US Radar team had a problem with the investigation they never mentioned it to us,” says Cappitelli, who is currently the commander, field services division, for the University of Illinois at Chicago Police Department.
“We conducted a detailed section-by-section grid search of the front yard, and we investigated the two highest anomalies – recommended by US Radar – and we did a careful archaeological dig that was supervised by the Cook County Medical Examiner and a forensic archaeologist,” Cappitelli continues.
“And we found a flattened saucepan and a marble in those two holes…So with the agreement of US Radar, the onsite experts including the medical examiner, the forensic archaeologist and the assistant state’s attorney Anna Demacopoulos, we concluded the search,” Cappitelli says.
US Radar’s LaBarca says that’s not entirely accurate.
“Sgt. Cappitelli asked us how many targets we had and, to the best of my recollection, we flagged 17 areas that merited further investigation,” LaBarca says. “He said pick our best two and if nothing was found that would be the end of the investigation.
“This is where the rub is – all anomalies should have been investigated. The bottom line is, there were 17 areas that merited further investigation and 15 of them didn’t get investigated,” LaBarca says.
LaBarca adds that he and Dittmer didn’t even witness the dig because they were not allowed inside the CPD tent and were taken to the airport immediately after the first hole was dug.
And LaBarca says they found out the result of the second excavation while watching the news in a pub near O’Hare Airport.
The Chicago Tribune reported in a November 24, 1998 story that “several other radar experts said they wouldn’t want to work under the pressure-filled conditions created by the Gacy dig and that an accurate interpretation of the scan results requires at least 24 hours to analyze the data.”
Patrick Jones, a retired Cook County Sheriff’s Office crime scene investigator who has 40 years of law enforcement experience, agrees.
“You can’t do a ground scan survey in the morning, analyze the results over lunch and then start digging in the afternoon,” says Jones, currently the director of the Forensic Science Laboratory at Purdue University.
“Also, to say at the beginning we’re only going to look at two anomalies, that’s not in line with the scientific method,” Jones continues. “If they just searched two of the 17 suspicious areas, then there was only a 12 percent chance that they would find anything.”
But why didn’t LaBarca voice his frustration onsite or talk to the media afterwards?
“I was actually asked by a BGA representative not to go any further with it until he cleared me to do so,” LaBarca says. “And I felt I had an obligation to the BGA. I felt that they would work this thing out. I didn’t think it wasn’t going to end where it did. And we were also strongly advised by a CPD official not to discuss the investigation.”
Former BGA chief investigator Mike Lyons, who didn’t attend the excavation, believes digging two holes was essentially meaningless – but it was a clever maneuver by the media savvy CPD.
“Where is the magic in the number two or three or five,” says Lyons. “There is no magic. They were just doing it to get it out of the way. And that’s exactly what they did – they got it out of the way.
“And if I were their public relations advisor, I would of advised them to do the same thing – which is limit your exposure, take one or two sites and let the whole thing go,” Lyons says.
Gacy prosecutor Terry Sullivan, who attended the dig, says he was under the impression that the CPD conducted a thorough investigation of the Miami site.
“I didn’t know the authorities said pick two spots and we’ll do some digging there,” says Sullivan, who heads The Sullivan Firm and is also a legal analyst for WGN-TV.
“You have experts with the most modern high-tech equipment and they come up with multiple hot spots so to speak,” continues Sullivan. ”And the CPD says investigate two, and then leaves the others? How is the investigation ever closed and how do you know whether or not there were any bodies there?”
***
In the aftermath of the CPD dig, the Associated Press reported that well-known Chicago personal injury lawyer Robert Clifford called the investigation “a fiasco,” and blamed the Better Government Association for “throwing the media into a frenzy.”
Former CPD Sgt. Cappitelli says attorney Clifford became involved with the case when the CPD advised the Miami apartment building owner to meet with Clifford regarding representation.
And after meeting with Clifford, the building owner agreed to sign a CPD consent to search form. Otherwise, the CPD had to file a search warrant application to conduct the onsite investigation of the Miami property.
According to the November 24, 1998, AP article, Clifford stopped short of threatening a lawsuit against the BGA and Bill Dorsch saying, “We’re throwing a good scare into them and trying to make these people do the right thing and publicly apologize to these people for the trouble they’ve caused.”
Dorsch says he called Clifford and welcomed a lawsuit.
“I wondered why he was not expecting an apology from the Chicago Police Department and the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office too,” Dorsch says of Clifford, who declined to be interviewed for the story.
“They had been conveniently left out,” Dorsch continues. “And I found it strange the CPD selected the attorney that they encouraged the owner to use to protect his property rights.
“Most people, including the media, didn’t realize the BGA and myself had no control over this event,” Dorsch explains. “We were only private citizens bringing this information to the CPD and the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office for review. They are the ones who decided to excavate, not us.”
Chapter 7: Why?
After reviewing the allegations that the CPD was “committed to not finding anything,” and the Gacy-Miami investigation was simply a “dog and pony show to satisfy the media” – and after taking a closer look at the days leading up to the CPD Miami dig on November 23, 1998 – the question, “Why would the CPD conduct such a seemingly incomplete investigation?” is not without merit.
Former executive director of the Better Government Association Terry Brunner says the CPD, the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office and city officials were concerned about the agenda of the BGA.
“We had been real tough on some past investigations and I think I had a reputation for being really tough,” Brunner says. “The 1997 report on Brown’s Chicken ripped the Palatine Police Department and Cook County State’s Attorney Jack O’Malley.
“I’m sure they look at everything in a political sense and they don’t believe you’re just being up front and honest with them. It’s Chicago and everything is political one way or another,” Brunner says.
Also during this period, the BGA was heavily involved with another high-profile investigation related to politician George Ryan, who eventually received a six-and-a-half-year sentence for racketeering and fraud while serving as the secretary of state (1990-1998) and governor of Illinois (1998-2002).
“I think they were very wary of me, they were wary of the BGA,” Brunner says. “I don’t think that Daley got involved personally. But the way the system works is they’re constantly circling the wagons and they don’t want any outsiders looking in. They can’t stand the media, the BGA or anybody looking into anything because they’re afraid of being embarrassed.”
Brunner adds that the intense media scrutiny surrounding the case and the potential for negative publicity were certainly factors that influenced the CPD’s investigative efforts.
Clifford Linedecker, author of the book The Man Who Killed Boys (St. Martin’s Paperbacks 1993), agrees that Chicago city officials were probably worried about a potential backlash if anything was found, especially since many people felt the CPD blew the original Gacy investigation – by not conducting an investigation in the first place.
“Shortly after the Gacy crimes were discovered, the media and the parents of some of the victims were looking for someone to blame,” says Linedecker, a former Chicago investigative reporter who now lives in Florida. “It was difficult to understand how so many murders could occur in one place, apparently at the hands of one man, over such a long period of time.
“Even more puzzling was how it could happen under the nose of what was ostensibly one of the largest, most sophisticated, best-equipped, and well-trained police departments in the country,” Linedecker continues. “Chicago police were publicly criticized for negligence, and named in lawsuits.”
However, Cappitelli, who headed the 1998 Gacy-Miami case, says he didn’t receive any pressure on how to conduct the investigation.
“Nobody came to me from anywhere and said ‘Back off’, or, ‘Don’t find anything,’” says Cappitelli, who holds a Ph.D. in public policy analysis from the University of Illinois at Chicago. “This was the straight deal.”
Former BGA official Mike Lyons says the CPD didn’t want to deal with the case or the BGA from the start and adopted an adversarial position early in the investigation.
“Frank Cappitelli is a detective of tremendous intelligence and tremendous integrity, but we were on opposite sides of the issue,” Lyons says. “He believed, or his bosses believed, that we were there to harm the police, which was not true. We were following one damn fine story. And it’s still a damn fine story. A story that has yet to be told.”
Chapter 8: Gacy-Miami Connection
Although it’s been more than 13 years since the CPD officially closed the Gacy-Miami case, the details of the investigation remain murky and have left many questions that resound to this day.
But, the only question that really matters is the one that prompted the investigation – “Did John Wayne Gacy use the Miami property to dispose of other murder victims?”
Despite the fact there may never be a definitive answer, a closer look at the connection between Gacy and the Miami apartment building might help shed some light on the mystery.
***
Sometime around 1971, Gacy became the maintenance man for the Miami Avenue building according to Lynn Troester – a resident of the Miami apartments from 1967 to April of 1974 – and Mike Nelson – a neighbor who lived across the street from 1959 to the early ’80s.
Troester said during a 1998 videotaped interview with the Better Government Association that she saw Gacy and his crew dig large holes in the yard and other areas near the building.
“They weren’t actually holes, they were just big spaces, more like trenches,” recalled Troester.
“There was no pattern – he would dig and leave them open for several days or even weeks,” Troester continued in the BGA interview. “Then one day, the space would be filled in with a shrub or something. But I don’t remember ever seeing him do the planting. We all thought – the other people in the building – that it was very strange.”
Nelson, who was born in 1959 and served as sort of a junior maintenance man for the Miami apartment building from around 1971 to 1976, says he distinctly remembers the digging because he and his friends used to jump the holes when they were kids.
“The trenches were dug on the outer edges of the yard that followed the sidewalk,” says Nelson, who would mow the lawn, take out the trash, and shovel the drive, as part of his job. “It was one continuous trench that was ‘L’ shaped, but the ‘L’ wasn’t connected. There was a large bush on the corner that they didn’t dig up.”
Looking back, Nelson says he has several questions regarding Gacy’s odd pattern of digging.
“Why would you dig that deep to pull out these little two-foot bushes,” asks Nelson, who has never been interviewed about the case until now. “And why would you dig that deep to plant new ones that were only around a foot tall? Also, why dig trenches anyway since they were spacing the new bushes about four feet apart?”
Nelson, who remembers seeing Gacy at the Miami building quite often, says the holes were left open for a couple of weeks and then one day they would be filled in. And like Troester, he never saw Gacy or his crew do the planting.
Terry Sullivan, who is considered to be one of the foremost experts on Gacy, says the irregular digging was an earmark of Gacy and certainly fit his M.O.
“The fact somebody is saying that he dug holes, and by the way, they didn’t have any rhyme or reason, that certainly is something that hits me in the head because very few people would know what I know about this,” says Sullivan, who spent five years researching Gacy for the trial and his book Killer Clown (Windsor Publishing 1983).
“And why would he be digging in the yard,” Sullivan continues. “That’s the million dollar question because Gacy was not known as a landscaper. I don’t remember anything that he ever did in his business that was related to landscaping.”
Lynn Troester also said on several occasions she and husband Bruno Muczynski, a Chicago Police Department detective, would wake up late at night because of noises coming from the basement.
“Our bedroom wall was against the basement because we lived in the garden apartment,” Troester said during the 1998 BGA videotaped interview.
“Bruno and I would be sleeping and at two or three o’clock in the morning we’d hear the basement door slamming against our bedroom wall,” Troester continued.” And Bruno would get up and look out and say it’s John.
“At the time, you just don’t think he could be doing anything sinister,” Troester said. “But you do think why is he down there, what is he doing? But you never asked. John was just different. He was a different person.”
In June 2012, Bruno Muczynski confirmed Troester’s story in a video interview with documentary producers Alison True and Tracy Ullman of Norwester Productions. The interview is available on the site JohnWayneGacyNews.com.
“He [Gacy] was the maintenance man for the building, but he’d come around at night and he’d go into the laundry room across from my apartment,” said Muczynski. “And I’d hear banging and digging…with a sledgehammer, he’d be pounding the concrete down there.”
Muczynski also said he contacted the detective division handling the Gacy investigation with this information shortly after the bodies were discovered.
“I told them who I was…I said I knew Gacy and I told them the things that were going on around the building,” said Muczynski. “And they said, ‘Bruno, we don’t want any more bodies. We got enough.’ I was sort of shocked. I thought they’d want to do everything…to get closure.”
Mike Nelson says he remembers a couple of unusual things about the basement, which Ron LaBarca says was “never in the equation to be scanned” by US Radar during the CPD Miami dig on November 23, 1998.
“Every week back then, I would take the basement garbage to the curb for trash pickup,” says Nelson. ”One day, I remember noticing a space down there had been filled in with concrete and I thought that was strange. Also, the basement window was blacked out so you couldn’t see in.”
Dr. Louis Schlesinger, a professor of psychology at John Jay College of Criminal Justice who specializes in serial killers, says you can’t overestimate the significance of Gacy’s job as a maintenance man for the Miami apartment building.
“First of all, most maintenance men don’t black out the windows of the buildings they’re working at,” Schlesinger says. “Having said that, in the context of a maintenance man, Gacy had a way to explain what might be seen as unusual behavior.
“For example, somebody may have asked him why he was digging and he could say a pipe broke or something, which would not arouse the suspicion of the residents,” Schlesinger continues. “He may have been viewed as a little different, but he appeared very normal. And so, he could easily give you an explanation and you’d say, ‘Oh, OK.’”
Gacy’s mother also had ties to the Miami property.
Marion Elaine Gacy lived and worked as the superintendent in the apartment building for a period of time in the ’70s, most likely from May 1972 to early 1975.
***
Robert Ressler said in his book, Whoever Fights Monsters (St. Martin’s Press 1992), that Carole Hoff, Gacy’s second wife – married in 1972, divorced in 1976 – would ask Gacy about the wallets of young men that he had in the house, but Gacy said it was none of her business and she dropped it.
Hoff also told police in 1978 that around November of 1972, she began to notice Gacy bringing young men to their Summerdale garage late at night, sometimes spending hours with them.
Looking in the garage once, after Gacy had driven off with a boy, she found a mattress and a red light on the floor.
Bill Dorsch believes Hoff’s story is significant because Gacy had already committed his first known murder in January 1972, and if Gacy needed a convenient off-property burial site, Miami was a great option.
“He’s bringing kids into his garage late at night, and then he’s leaving with them,” Dorsch says. “How do we know that the kids aren’t brought to that garage – sexually assaulted in that garage – killed in that garage – then the bodies are put into his car and driven to Miami?
“At the time, it was difficult for Gacy to use the crawl space in his home because his family was living with him,” Dorsch continues. “So, Miami was perfect for him – he had a reason to be there and it was only four miles from his house.”
Dorsch’s theory is even more compelling when comparing a timeline of Gacy’s 33 known murders with the dates he worked as the maintenance man for the Miami building:
*Jan. 3, 1972 – March 1976 – Gacy kills three people over a four year, two-month period
Key Fact: When Gacy lives with his family, average time between his known murders – 500 days
*April 1976 – Dec. 1978 – Gacy kills 30 people over two year, eight-month period
Key Fact: When Gacy lives alone, average time between his known murders – 32 days
*1971 – 1976 – Gacy is the maintenance man for Miami apartment building in Chicago, a position he holds from approximately 1971-1976 according to neighbors and former residents
Key Fact: Gacy has access to a site only four miles from his house
“I find it hard to believe that Gacy only used his property and the river to get rid of bodies,” says Patrick Jones, who worked on the original Gacy case as a crime scene investigator with the Cook County Sheriff’s Office.
“Why couldn’t he have had a third dump site,” Jones continues. “We know Gacy liked to keep his victims close, so if he was the maintenance man for the Miami property that would be ideal for him to use because it was close and he could visit any time he liked.”
Terry Sullivan says the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office investigated several other possible Gacy murder sites, but it had no idea about the connection between Gacy and the Miami location before the 1998 investigation.
And Sullivan, who attended the CPD dig at Miami, says the site piqued his interest.
“It was a very unusual sort of a lot,” recalls Sullivan. “It intrigued me when I got there, especially since it was quite a small place and because it was in the kind of neighborhood that Gacy was from – the working middle class.
“And I thought if he had access to the property or if he had known somebody who lived there, or was doing work there, it would have been very easy for him to use the site. It fit right in to everything,” says Sullivan.
***
Although the official case reports of the 1998 CPD Gacy-Miami investigation couldn’t be located by the administrative staff of the CPD or the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office, below is a copy of the search warrant application for the Miami property dated November 16, 1998.
Written by CPD Detective Eddie Dickinson, the document summarizes the collective work and opinion of the CPD officers who worked on the 1998 Gacy-Miami investigation up to that point.
In addition, the report – which has never been made public until now – concludes that the CPD believed “there are buried human remains located at (address deleted) W. Miami.”
AFFIDAVIT OF DETECTIVE EDWIN M. DICKINSON
I, Edwin M. Dickinson, being duly sworn under oath, hereby state as follows:
1. I am a Chicago Police Officer and have been so employed for the past 25 years. I am currently assigned as a Detective to Area Five Detective Division of the Chicago Police Department.
2. On 28 October 1998, I interviewed Mr. William Dorsch, a retired Chicago Police Officer, who stated that he had information as to the location where numerous victims of John W. Gacy may be buried. Mr. Dorsch indicated that he had suspicions for many years that John W. Gacy may have buried bodies at a residential apartment building at (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois. Mr. Dorsch related that prior to Gacy’s arrest, trial, and conviction as a serial killer he had seen Gacy with a shovel at (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois at approximately 3:00 A.M. Mr. Dorsch further related that Gacy was a caretaker for (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois during the years of 1972, 1973, and 1974. Mr. Dorsch submitted the name of the owner of this building during the time in question and one of the tenants of this building.
3. Mr. Dorsch also related that he recently contacted U.S. Radar Inc., of Matawan, New Jersey to conduct a ground penetrating radar search of (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois.
4. On 7 October 1998, in cooperation with the Better Government Association (B.G.A.), Mr. Dorsch and U.S. Radar Inc., conducted a covert non-invasive ground penetrating radar partial search of the yard and blacktop surrounding (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois. Mr. Dorsch stated that the results of this non-invasive search indicate six anomalous data points that are consistent with buried remains. Mr. LaBarca, of U.S. Radar Inc., has submitted a written report confirming these findings.
5. Mr. (name deleted) was confirmed through Cook County Records to be the owner of (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois during the years in question. Mr. (name deleted) was interviewed and confirmed that John W. Gacy had access to the property during the time frame in question and had done maintenance work on this building. Mr. John W. Gacy was confirmed to have done cement work in the basement of (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois.
6. Ms. Lynn Troester was interviewed and confirms that she rented an apartment in the building located at (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois during the years in question. She further confirmed that John W. Gacy had access to the building and surrounding grounds of (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois and acted as a maintenance man during the years in question.
7. Ms. Troester further confirmed that John W. Gacy had been known to conduct nocturnal excavations in the yard and blacktop areas of (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois.
8. Chicago Police Officer Bruno Muczyniski, currently assigned to the 15th District, was interviewed and stated that during the time in question he was married to Ms. Lynn Troester and resided in an apartment unit located at (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois. Officer Bruno confirmed that John W. Gacy acted in the capacity of a maintenance man at (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois during the years of 1972, 1973, and 1974. Officer Bruno also confirmed that John W. Gacy was observed excavating on this property during various times of the day and night.
9. Mr. John Ignoffo was interviewed and he stated that during the time in question he lived at (address deleted) W. Miami which provides a direct northerly view of (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois. Mr. Ignoffo stated that he was approximately ten years old at the time in question and remembers that John W. Gacy had dug a three foot deep trench contiguous with the Miami Ave. sidewalks. Additionally, Mr. Ignoffo stated that his mother (deceased) had told him that she had observed John W. Gacy performing nocturnal excavations with plastic bags filled with unknown material. Mr. Ignoffo further related that his mother told him that John W. Gacy performed cement work under the back stairs of the building and in the laundry room of the basement.
10. Mr. Ron LaBarca, U.S. Radar Inc., of P.O. Box 319, Matawan, New Jersey, 07747 was telephonically interviewed and he confirms, that on 7 October 1998, he conducted a noninvasive partial search with remote sensing geophysical instrumentation (commonly referred to as surface or ground penetrating radar), of the yard and blacktop area contiguous to (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Illinois at the request of Mr. Dorsch and the Better Government Association.
11. Pursuant to this technical inspection of (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois with remote sensing geophysical instrumentation (commonly referred to as surface or ground penetrating radar) by Mr. Ron LaBarca, of U.S. Radar, discovered that there are six subsurface anomalies that are not consistent with surrounding soil, are similar in size, shape, and dept for the evidence being sought and have a significant expectation for yielding additional forensic evidence. It is necessary to excavate these anomalies to fully evaluate their evidentiary value.
12. Mr. LaBarca further stated that he then had this data evaluated by Geophysicist Dr. Jon Dittmer, of ERA Technology and Michael Blain of U. S. Radar Inc. Mr. LaBarca indicated that his evaluations of the data obtained at (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois were confirmed by Geophysicist Dr. Jon Dittmer and Michael Blain.
13. Based on the facts of my investigation to wit: John W. Gacy had access to (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois and acted as a maintenance man; he had been known to conduct nocturnal excavations; he is the most prolific known serial killer in the State of Illinois; his method of disposing of his victims is identical to actions he was observed to perform at (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois; and there is credible scientific evidence to believe that the possibility exists that human remains are buried in the yard and black top contiguous to (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois; I believe that there are buried human remains located at (address deleted) W. Miami, Cook County, Chicago, Illinois. Consequently, based on this information I respectfully request that a Search Warrant be issued for the recovery of buried human remains located on the property of (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois.
______________________________________
Detective Edwin M. Dickinson
Subscribed and Sworn to Before Me This 16th Day of November, 1998, A.D.
_______________________________________
Judge of the Circuit Court of Cook County
***
After reviewing Gacy’s ties to the Miami apartment building, the question arises – “Should authorities reopen the Gacy-Miami investigation?”
Ross Gardner, a former felony criminal investigator with the U. S. Army Criminal Investigation Command and currently a crime scene analyst with Bevel Gardner & Associates, believes the connection between Gacy and the Miami building is clear, but conducting a definitive search to determine if any bodies are buried on the property is extremely challenging.
“The real question lies with how much effort the authorities are willing to extend in this closed investigation and how supportive the owners of the Miami building are to such an investigative effort,” Gardner says.
“Even with experienced forensic investigators employing all of the available technologies – magnetometers, ground penetrating radar, or infrared thermography – finding a clandestine grave is not guaranteed,” Gardner continues. “Assuming these non-intrusive search techniques locate areas of interest in the basement, under pavement, or on the grounds – ultimately, it will require an intrusive physical excavation. But, only at a significant cost and with significant effort.”
Chapter 9: Gacy’s Legacy
Although the depths of his crimes may still be unknown, Gacy has had a profound impact on countless lives, including the police officers who broke the case in 1978.
“It was a nightmare that has never gone away,” says former Des Plaines detective Joe Kozenczak, who was 38 when he led the investigation.
“It affected all of us and left scars – emotional and professional scars,” Kozenczak continues. “The horror and the overwhelming anxiety and stress of working the case was very difficult to deal with, even for veteran police officers.”
Rafael Tovar – the last Des Plaines officer who worked on the Gacy investigation before retiring in 2009 – echoes Kozencak’s sentiments.
“Occasionally, I’ll look back at the photos of what we were doing – digging through muck up to our knees, decaying flesh in our bare hands, with no masks or special uniforms,” Tovar recalls.
“We didn’t think it would affect us, but it did,” Tovar continues. “And every year after that, all the guys who were part of the dig would meet once a year for dinner and drinks – that was our therapy to each other in dealing with the horror of the case.”
Gacy, who turned down handwritten requests for interviews from Oprah Winfrey and Truman Capote, is still a pop culture icon of evil today.
British journalist William Cash wrote about Gacy’s cult of personality for a 1994 story in the Daily Mail:
Part of the fascination with Gacy is that his case was one of the first to alter the public consciousness about serial killers. He was one of the first to attract frenzied media coverage, which served almost to turn him into a lone, outcast, folkloric hero. In prison he received more than 27,000 letters, to which he replied to by hand. Like many serial killers, Gacy has enjoyed having his ego massaged by media attention. In this respect, the American media cannot be accused of having let him down.
***
The Gacy murders struck a blow at the heart of Chicago – the diverse, well-defined, tight-knit communities that make it one of the most vibrant cities in the world.
And Gacy’s legacy of torture and bloodshed will forever stain the Windy City, which has seen more than its fair share of grisly crimes during its famously sordid past.
But the thought that the nightmare is not over – that there may still be other Gacy victims waiting to be discovered in another quiet family neighborhood – is almost too disheartening to imagine.
A current resident at the Miami apartments says she is aware of the building’s link with the nation’s most prolific serial killer.
“My boyfriend and I would definitely prefer to live someplace else,” says the resident, who declined to be named. “But we pray all the time. I do believe that praying will help. And if there are other victims of Gacy here, I don’t think they would hurt us. They would only want help. And I’m willing to help them any way I can.”
Epilogue: Current Gacy-Miami Investigation
In March 2011, several Chicago and national media outlets reported on the new developments in the Gacy case – based on “Unfinished Nightmare” – but most failed to credit ShadowReports or myself as the source.
However, WGN-TV was one of the few news organizations that did credit ShadowReports with breaking the story in its March 17, 2011, report – “More Gacy Victims?”
As a result of the ShadowReports article and related follow-up stories, there was renewed interest in the Gacy case.
In October 2011, Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart officially reopened the Gacy case. Below is part of a Nov. 1, 2011, article from USA Today – “Reopened John Wayne Gacy case could lead to more victims.”
Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart has reopened the Gacy investigation in hopes that DNA testing unavailable at the time of the murders can help identify eight victims whose names were never known. Their remains have been exhumed.
A re-examination of evidence turned up airline tickets and other documents that have prompted new inquiries into unsolved murders in 14 states and Canada where Gacy traveled during his six-year killing spree.
Already, the reopened case has solved one longstanding mystery: Harold Wayne Lovell, whose family concluded he was one of Gacy’s victims after his 1977 disappearance, turned up alive in Florida. He has reunited with his siblings.
…Dart says four or five detectives are working almost full-time on the case.
Terry Sullivan, a Chicago lawyer who helped prosecute Gacy, says that “even in death he’s like an octopus” whose tentacles extend far beyond the suburban Chicago home where he murdered most of his known victims.
…Sullivan says. “I have always said that there is a strong possibility that there were other victims,” he says. “The pressure has got to be kept on law enforcement to continue this.”
According to WGN-TV, Dart says the Cook County Sheriff’s Office is also following up on the 1998 Chicago Police Department Gacy-Miami investigation.
WGN-TV reported the CPD would not comment on the Gacy-Miami investigation and referred inquiries to the Cook County Sheriff’s Office after the ShadowReports article and related follow-up stories were published / broadcast.
In December 2011, Dart told WGN-TV that his office will be presenting new evidence to a judge to get a search warrant at some point in 2012 for a possible new search of the Miami grounds with more advanced radar equipment.
On March 30, 2012, the Chicago Tribune reported Cook County State’s Attorney Anita Alvarez denied Dart’s request to seek a search warrant for the property, saying the sheriff’s office does not have probable cause — sufficient information that the search will produce evidence of a crime — to obtain a warrant.
In June 2012, Dart was interviewed by documentary producers Alison True and Tracy Ullman of Norwester Productions for the site JohnWayneGacyNews.com.
“If, at the end of the day, they turn us down again…the public will always wonder whether or not there was bodies there,” said Dart. “Whereas, if we were able to go ahead and do it, we could put it to rest – this has been thoroughly examined, there is nothing here.”
On July 16, 2012, WGN’s Larry Potash reported that Dart has resubmitted his request for a Miami property search warrant to the Cook County State’s Attorney`s office.
On January 11, 2013, Cook County State’s Attorney Anita Alvarez approved the Cook County Sheriff’s Office request for a search warrant. Details about the new search are pending.
Anyone with additional information about the Gacy case is asked to call the Cook County Sheriff’s Office at 1-800-942-1950 or go to their site at http://www.CookCountySheriff.com.
Appendix – Exclusive Gacy Timeline
John Wayne Gacy was convicted of 33 murders – 27 bodies buried under his house, one body each under the concrete in his garage and patio, and four bodies dumped in the river. All his victims were young men in their early teens to early 20s.
Perhaps the most compelling information that can help shed light on the Gacy-Miami mystery is a timeline of Gacy’s life from 1968-1978.
The timeline, an “Unfinished Nightmare” exclusive, suggests that if Gacy committed other murders, he probably committed them between 1971-1975.
And the timeline also suggests that if Gacy used the Miami property to dispose of bodies, he probably used it between 1971-1975.
1968-1978 Gacy Timeline
*March 1968 – Gacy sexually assaults two teenage boys and is sent to prison in Iowa
Key Point: Gacy’s first arrest for violent sex crime, victims live
*June 18, 1970 – Gacy paroled from prison and moves to Chicago to live with his mom
Key Point: Gacy arrives in Chicago
*Feb. 1971 – Chicago teenage boy claims Gacy sexually assaulted him, charges later dropped
Key Point: Gacy’s second arrest for violent sex crime, victim lives
*Aug. 1971 – Gacy and his mom buy Summerdale house located just outside Chicago
Key Point: Gacy has a big-city base of operation, but he lives with his mother
*1971 – Gacy becomes the maintenance man for Miami Ave. apartment building in Chicago, a position he holds until at least 1975
Key Point: Gacy has control of a site that is convenient for him to dispose of bodies, located only four miles from his house
*1971 – According to Miami Ave. building junior maintenance man Mike Nelson, the basement windows at the Miami apartment are blacked out during the time Gacy worked there
Key Point: Gacy has control of a site that is convenient for him to dispose of bodies and he is blacking out the basement windows
*Jan. 3, 1972 – Gacy murders victim #1, Timothy McCoy, in his Summerdale home
Key Point: Gacy’s first known murder, buried on his property
*June 1972 – Gacy charged with battery after a young man says Gacy flashed a sheriff’s badge, lured him into Gacy’s car, and forced him into sex, charges later dropped
Key Point: Gacy’s first arrest for violent sex crime after committing murder, victim lives
*March 1972 – Carole Hoff and her two daughters move in with Gacy and his mom
Key Point: Gacy has four people living with him at his Summerdale house
*May 1972 – Gacy’s mom moves out of Summerdale home and moves into Miami apartments
Key Point: Gacy is not only the maintenance man for Miami building, now his mom lives and works there as the building superintendent until around spring of 1975
*June 1, 1972 – Gacy and Carole Hoff get married, Carole’s mom moves in with the couple
Key Point: Gacy has four people living with him at his Summerdale house
*November 1972 – Carole Hoff begins to notice Gacy bringing young men to their Summerdale garage late at night – garage windows are blacked out and sometimes Gacy spends hours there – Carole also discovers a mattress and a red light on the floor one night after Gacy drives off
Key Point: Gacy uses garage for likely sexual activity and then drives off late at night
*Around 1972 – 1975 – Carole Hoff asks Gacy about the wallets of young men that he has in the house – Gacy tells her it is none of her business and she drops it
Key Point: Possession of wallets is strong circumstantial evidence that Gacy committed a crime to acquire them
*Summer 1973 – Gacy gets a court order to evict his mother-in-law
Key Point: Gacy now has three people living with him at his Summerdale house
*Sometime between 1972 – 1975 – Gacy murders victim #2, body is unidentified
Key Point: Gacy’s second known murder, buried on his property
*1975 – Gacy’s mom moves out of Miami apartment building and moves to Arkansas
Key Point: Gacy loses a family contact at the Miami building
*July 31, 1975 – Gacy murders victim #3, John Butkovich, in his Summerdale home
Key Point: Gacy’s third known murder, buried on his property
*February 1976 – Carole Hoff and her two kids move out of Summerdale home
Key Point: Gacy now lives by himself
*April 1976 – Dec. 11, 1978 – Gacy murders victims #4 through #33, all killed in his Summerdale home
Key Point: Gacy is killing more frequently
*December 1977 – Gacy kidnaps teen boy at gunpoint and commits sexual assault
Key Point: Gacy’s first known violent sex crime after he commits multiple murders, victim lives
*March 1978 – Gacy lures a young man into his car, chloroforms him, takes him back to his Summerdale house, rapes and tortures him, but eventually lets him go
Key Point: Gacy’s second known violent sex crime after he commits multiple murders, victim lives
*Dec. 11, 1978 – Gacy murders victim #33, Robert Piest
Key Point: Gacy’s last known murder
Timeline Summary & Conclusion
*Aug. 1971 – February 1976 – Gacy lives at Summerdale house with family
Conclusion: Gacy has people living with him, so it’s difficult to use house as burial site
*1971 – Gacy becomes the maintenance man for Miami Ave. apartment building in Chicago, a position he holds until at least 1975
Conclusion: Gacy has control of a location to dispose of bodies, only four miles from his house
*Jan. 3, 1972 – Gacy murders victim #1, Timothy McCoy, in his Summerdale home
Conclusion: Although he may have killed earlier, no doubt now that Gacy is a lethal predator
*May 1972 – Gacy’s mom moves out of Summerdale home and moves into Miami apartments
Conclusion: Gacy is not only the maintenance man for Miami building, now his mom lives there and she is also the superintendent for the building
*November 1972 – Carole Hoff begins to notice Gacy bringing young men to their Summerdale garage late at night – garage windows are blacked out and sometimes Gacy spends hours there – Carole also discovers a mattress and a red light on the floor one night after Gacy drives off
Conclusion: Gacy appears to be engaging in sexual behavior that seems to be consistent with his past and future sexual patterns
*Around 1972 – 1975 – Carole Hoff asks Gacy about the wallets of young men that he has in the house – Gacy tells her it is none of her business and she drops it
Conclusion: Possession of wallets is strong circumstantial evidence that Gacy committed a crime to acquire them and fits his future pattern of keeping his murder victim’s wallets
*February 1976 – Carole Hoff and her two kids move out of Summerdale home
Conclusion: Gacy now lives by himself and has more opportunity to kill
*Jan. 3, 1972 – March 1976 – Gacy kills three people over a four-year, 2-month period
Conclusion: When Gacy lives with his family, average time between his murders – 500 days
*April 1976 – Dec. 1978 – Gacy kills 30 people over two-year, 8-month period
Conclusion: When Gacy lives alone, average time between his murders – 32 days
*1971 – 1975 – Gacy is the maintenance man for Miami Ave. apartment building in Chicago, a position he holds until at least 1975
Conclusion: Gacy has the opportunity to dispose of bodies at a low-risk site located five minutes from his house
Acknowledgments
I would like to thank Roosevelt University professor Anne Marie Cusac, who taught the magazine writing class where the story first took shape – her advice and editing contributions were invaluable.
Roosevelt University journalism professors Linda Jones and Shonda Dudlicek, who both helped edit the book.
Alison True for her belief in the story.
Larry Potash and Mike Wilder for their journalistic integrity.
Matt Weller for his encouragement.
Also, others who provided support and advice include: John McCormick, Clifford Linedecker, Marsha Bartel, John Drummond, John Kass, Todd Musburger, John McClelland, Jesse Katz, Tony Kern, Dave Pieper, Tony Pietrczak, Nathan Stange, Tam Dillman, Jeff Kiko, Dave Fischer, Ted Wellman, Tom Wellman, Terry Phillips, Mike Smucker, Kyle Rafferty, Mike Clark and Bryan Smith – his non-fiction features in Chicago magazine have been an inspiration.
A very special thanks to Frank Cappitelli, Bill Dorsch, Ron LaBarca, Mike Lyons, Terry Sullivan and Joseph Kozenczak.
Also, thanks to the men and women of the Chicago Police Department, Cook County Sheriff’s Office and other law enforcement officers around the country who risk their lives every day.
Secondary Sources
The Associated Press, “Dig for Gacy victims planned for Monday,” November 19, 1998.
The Associated Press, “List of Gacy’s Victims,” May 9, 1994.
The Associated Press, “Radar Hints Of New Victims Of Mass Killer,” November 12, 1998.
Assuras, Thalia. “Chicago Police Find No More Of John Wayne Gacy’s Victims,”CBS Morning News, November 24, 1998.
Bierschenk,Ed. “Reportrips Palatine police in murder probe,” Copley News Service, November 20, 1997.
Brown, Andrea. “Last Des Plaines investigator on Gacy case stepping down,” Chicago Tribune, September 30, 2009.
Burns, Terry. “Gacy killed dozens, and maybe was ‘good for more than 33,’” 1994.
Cash, William. “Ringside At An Execution,” Daily Mail London, May 11, 1994.
Chamberlain, Charles. “Prosecution Calls Gacy “Worst Of All Murderers,” The Associated Press, March 11, 1980.
Cosgrove-Miller, Bootie. “Inside A Killer’s Mind – Gacy’s Brain And Beyond: A Doctor Explores World Of Serial Killers,” CBS News, May 10, 2004.
Davis Patty. “Chicago Mayor Daley poised to Rush back into office,” CNN, February 23, 1999.
Driscoll, Paul. “Anyone With a Brain Knew This Was Not a Runaway,” The Associated Press, May 9, 1994.
Flock, Jeff and Waters, Lou. “Police Search for More Victims at Gacy’s Mother’s Apartment,” CNN, November 23, 1998.
Flock, Jeff and Lin, Carol. “Police Search Gacy Victims,” CNN, November 23, 1998.
Howlett, Debbie. “Search renewed for Gacy victims,” USA Today, November 23, 1998.
Jacobson, Walter. “John Wayne Gacy: The Mind of a Serial Killer,” WBBM CBS 2, May 1992.
Keen, Judy. “Reopened John Wayne Gacy case could lead to more victims,” USA Today, Nov. 1, 2011.
Kozenczak, Joseph and Henrikson, Karen. The Chicago Killer. Xlibris 2003.
Krishnamurth, Madhu.“Des Plaines police investigator recalls working infamous Gacy case,” Daily Herald, October 1, 2009.
Linedecker. Clifford. The Man Who Killed Boys. St. Martin’s Press 1980.
Lohr, David. “Boy Killer: John Wayne Gacy,”
CrimeMagazine.com, August 5, 2001.
Maier, Frank and Matthews, Tom. “Double Life of a Clown,”Newsweek,January 8, 1979.
Marin, Carol and Wigdahl, Heidi. “John Wayne Gacy’s Final Secret,” NBC Chicago, May 12, 2009.
Mayer, Cynthia. “On Death Row, Time Is Running Out,”The Philadelphia Inquirer, April 17, 1994.
McCormick, John.“Digging Up The Past – Did John Wayne Gacy Kill More Than We Knew?”Newsweek, November 23, 1998.
Miller, John. “Playing With Predators,”ABC News, July 15, 2000.
The Montreal Gazette, “Did Gacy kill more?” November 14, 1998.
Morrison, Helen and Goldberg, Harold. My Life Among Serial Killers. Avon Books 2004. “Police Search Yields Nothing in Gacy Case,” The New York Times, November 24, 1998.
O’Brien, John. “Dig Planned at Chicago Site Tied to Gacy,”Chicago Tribune, November 11, 1998.
Ressler, Robert and Shachtman, Tom. Whoever Fights Monsters. St. Martin’s Paperbacks 1992.
Ressler, Robert and Shachtman, Tom. I Have Lived in the Monsters. St. Martin’s Paperbacks 1997.
Robinson, Mike. “High-tech hunt prompts dig for more Gacy victims,” The Associated Press, November 11, 1998.
Robinson, Mike. “Police Seek Chicago Killer Victims,” The Associated Press,” November 23, 1998.
Robinson, Mike. “Hunt for Gacy victims proves ‘a big case over nothing,’” The Associated Press, November 24, 1998.
Sullivan, Terry with Peter T. Maiken, Peter. Killer Clown – The John Wayne Gacy Murders. Windsor Publishing 1983.
Time, “I Do Rotten, Horrible Things,” January 8, 1979.
Time, “Nation: It’s God’s Will,” March 24, 1980.
Time, “Top 25 Crimes Of The 20th Century – John Wayne Gacy, 1978,” 2007.
UPI, “Retiring detective remembers serial killer,” September 30, 2009.
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About the Author
Chris Maloney is a Chicago-based freelance writer and producer. He won the 2009 Golden Key Literary Achievement Award in news writing and has been published in Shape, Hustler,The Huffington Post, PGATour.comand Yahoo! Singapore – a homepage feature story.
In January 2011, he launched ShadowReports.com, a digital media site that publishes original investigative reports and unique feature stories.
Maloney also recently published the eBook, Eaten Alive: Five Killer Croc Attacks (Amazon 2012). In addition, he is writing the hardcover children’s picture book, Bronco the Pizza Delivery Dog, which will be published in 2013.
Previously, Maloney was a writer and producer for Boatyard, Classic Boat and Cruising The Great Lakes – three weekly marine series produced for the national cable networks Outdoor Life (currently NBC Sports) and Speed.
He has an M.A. in Integrated Marketing Communications from Roosevelt University and a B.A. in journalism from the University of Dayton.
***
[…] exclusive story – “Find The Bodies If You Can: Should The John Wayne Gacy Case Be Reopened?” – is the result of six months of research by freelance writer […]
I do believe that there are bodies there still. The evidence is too clear to be overlooked. And I hope that they will eventually reopen the case and work on it. Even if nothing much comes of it at least if identification is possible the families might finally find peace in the death of their loved ones.
Don’t give up on this, there’s too much clues to overlook it again.
There is a lot of new information below in the many “postings by none” starting on July 4, 2012. It contains information too controversial for the media to report on but I assure you all that it is true. – (birthname) Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to mass murder.
deepquarry@yahoo.com
I started reposting with the name “link”. The previously unmentioned place that Gacy took me to was Sunrise Lake. I have told so many people (>100)over the last 30 years anyway so why keep it a secret on the internet. Gacy, Cram and Rossi were all over that area for years and Deep Quarry was full of dead people.The police under the direction of overstepping politicians want to keep this a public secret. The question is WHY?
There are no valid reasons to protect mass murderers, so why do they?
(birthname) Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to mass murder.
“NOBODY WOULD…”
Anyone who starts a sentence with the words
“Nobody would…”
just stop right there and shut your trap.
-Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to the Deep Quarry mass murders.
Yeah, folks;
Settle in for a long session of reading some great stories. You may need a notebook and a pen to keep track of it all.
It’s sad to watch someone spiral downward from doing some creative writing to actually believing their own stories. Read on to watch it happen. Enjoy the first creative posts from, “None,” but always remember that there is help for mental illness as the posts from, “Deep Quarry/Felix” begin to appear.
I wish you all the best.
Felix- All kidding aside please get help, my friend.
Imagine that…an internet troll hiding behind a fake name accessing mental illness. What else do you have, other than an opinion… to bring to the table Mr. Reason?
Being nice doesn’t work in Illinois Mr. Reason, you claim to be a former cop in earlier postings below; therefore you have a vested interest in discrediting me. A high level politician like Tom Dart who is guilty of Misprision of felon, and Filing a false police report under penal code, just for starters with his phony Daniel Noe mountain man story will not investigate himself; nor will his filthy criminal buddies. They are above the law. They are now criminals who protect serial killers as a byproduct of protecting THEIR OWN criminality or the government’s criminality; even a subordinate cop who assists an idiot politician like Tom Dart is guilty of Misprision of Felony. I am sorry for Frank Bibbiano, Eric Roger, Scott Cassisy and Dan Palmer, but they are all (perhaps unwilling?) criminals now, being forced to listen to politician cops like Tom Dart and John Zaruba, uttering the intentional ambiguous overused words “There are no reports”..….. It is not their fault…. it is their bosses fault. I don’t know what idiot came up with that statement and then ordered THAT NO REPORTS BE TAKEN but that man needs to be given life in prison. Nevertheless they are all criminals now. No Illinois politician like a Sheriff, DA or judge will investigate or implicate their fellow politicians. The system is broken. Meanwhile one of the worst serial killers in history Michael J. Rossi (sex pedophile) of Rock Tavern NY is free to live his life, (as was my hated friend and neighbor David F. Cram) compliments of the blind accidental stupidity of the 1979 Illinois politicians (Sheriffs, Coroners and a typical corrupt Governor) and perpetuated in 2010 by dumbass politician Tom Dart and whoever else is assisting in their secret quest to conceal the secret cleanup at Deep Quarry in 1979.
-Felix Francis (Frank) Marcus , age 61 eyewitness to serial killings as performed by Michael J. Rossi and David F. Cram at Deep Quarry, Bartlett, Il during the late 1970’s. Witness stand anyone?
!’m sorry I inferred you have mental health issues. My disbelief of some aspects of your stories should not have lead to a personal attack. I would like to explore some of our differences in an adult manner.
My name is Felix Francis (Frank) Marcus, age 61. I am an eyewitness to many serial killings by my hated friend David F. Cram and Michael J. Rossi (not A. Rossi…Mike lied) The government is more corrupt than anyone could ever imagine. Tom Dart is continuing in the tradition. Lawsuits by anyone are welcome.
http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/deepquarry/library/?sort=3&page=1
http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/stratacube/library/?view=recent&page=1
This is a very long article…long on extraneous detail and woefully short on information. Not terribly compelling, it is very much like the aforementioned Geraldo/Al Capone vault story…a real bust.
Your personal issue with the author is meaningless and should be disregarded by anyone reading this article.
Keep your bias to yourself and deal with the content presented. Your personal feelings are not relevant.
Your personal issue with Jay is meaningless and should be disregarded by anyone reading this article.
Keep your bias to yourself and deal with the content presented. Your personal feelings are not relevant.
Agreed- this author needs to present the info better.
jay…..100% wrong. This is an amazing piece and it may be just the thing that will FINALLY urge Anita Alvarez to do something.
Frances, I can only agree. After reading Chris’ article, I was inspired to do further research. It’s the real deal and Anita Alvarez is going to have to reckon with the facts. The building at Miami and Elston could very well be the site of more bodies from John Wayne Gacy’s killing spree. Feel free to see the research myself and Alison True have done at johnwaynegacynews.com.
IF there is any doubt that he “might” have buried someone there then the families deserve the effort to do an investigation. Period. It’s their job and it’s their duty to the families who have not had closure.
The question remains, why would they not?
It’s obvious that there is something there. 3 am with a shovel? that alone is more than enough.
It’s sad that those seeking political cover go to such lengths to misrepresent what happened, and keep those who died hidden.
Jay, you wouldn’t be a shill for them, would you?
If there is ANY chance that there still may be bodies buried at the Miami location, then a complete, unobstructed, and untainted investigation is in order. It is truly a shame that proper evidence might be disregarded because of political bullshit and the embarrassment of receiving a failing mark for the original investigation by the CPD. Nobody really knows what the truth is regarding all of the parties involved, yet, if there are bodies to be found, the families of these victims have a right to know for the sake of closure.
Well done, I was fascinated reading this from start to finish. The answer is yes, they clearly should be doing more to see what may lurk in the Miami apartment. The question is why have they not…a bit strange one would think.
[…] EXCLUSIVE – Find The Bodies If You Can: Should The John Wayne Gacy Case Be Reopened? John Wayne Gacy’s alter ego, Pogo the Clown. John Wayne Gacy. […]
I think this is complete crap. I was hooked by the press release and came to the site to see what I thought would be an “investigative story.” What I found was a (poorly written) novel excerpt that I couldn’t stomach for more than a coupla paragraphs. Bill yourself as what you are, or your clever marketing hook will be for naught, since many, like I, will never return.
Speculation is just a thought experiment that cannot be tested with logic or fact. Anyone can speculate anything, fun, but not very useful. Dorsch, apparently got a lot of service for an uncorroborated decades old story. If his evidence was so convincing, he should have followed it up during his years as a detective when he was duly vested with the authority to do so. This entire account, based on the real evidence, not speculation, should be relegated to the trash bin of fantasy.
My mom use to receive alms and she went to John Gacy’s house before they knocked it down she said the world will never know exactly how many men and boys Gacy killed. But she did say that she feels he killed over 50 men and boys and because he had a construction company and did various construction jobs she said that the concrete slab patio Gacy once had he laid himself had bodies under it and other people’s houses that he did concrete work for not just parking lots. Let me know if I can help in any way
Lynn, what does this mean: “My mom use to receive alms…”?
Thank you Lynn. This monster was truly all over the place and how can this be closed if there is 8 bodies unidentified!
Very well written and researched!
The latest movie,”Dear Mr. Gacy” is based on the fictional writings of Jason Moss’s book.
I suspect Mr. Moss himself was also gay and was obsessed with contacting serial killers because he was a similar murderer of young gay men.
He admitted it to John Gacy.
Don’t ask how I know this because the story will be too long.
Jason Moss committed suicide.There is a good reason he did.
I doubt the police will find any bodies in the front yard or parking lot. Why would he bury bodies in plain view where someone could walk by or look out a window. The police should look in the basement of this building or in a heavily wooded area nearby.
Funny, years ago i was at the forest preserves near cumberland and irving park road and stumbled across two mounds in the ground six feet long. My first thoughts were american indians or gacy victims. I never pursued it thinking i wouldnt be taken seriously.
Who knows how many gacy victims there really are as there are so many forest preserves near his house that could be a very convenient burial sites.
i lived in the miami garden apartment in 1975 with my family. i will be curious to hear more.
Thanks to the author for the provocative read. It does sound like there’s plenty of circumstantial evidence for this to be investigated further – more digging to find more potential victimes. Not only is this the proper thing to do for relatives of past victims, but also otherwise questions will always linger about whether additional victims are buried there.
We’re in a new era in Chicago – new mayor, new police chief, new commitment to honesty in government and ethics, etc, etc, I think that it’s the right thing to do…
I think that even if a private company can be hired to see if there are victims bodies on the property and leave the police department out of it until they find remains.
I as far as serial killers I read, watch movies and documentaries, and anything I can find about them and I own alot about them I also read Ressler’s books maybe I’m obsessed with serial killers also. I can look at pictures of true crime evidence as in dismembered bodies and eat at the same time.
I have to say not because I’m gay myself but Gacy he is one of my favorites so is Dahmer, Bundy, BTK, and many more the most evil ones you can imagine. I know what they have done but I try so hard to get in to and wonder what’s in their heads but to me it’s a big puzzle and not all the pieces can be found.
a friend of mine told me one time is Jay since you are into real true crimes esp. serial killers you should have been working with the police in the homicide dept.
Everyone needs to put their egos aside, and dig up the grounds and basement of the apartment complex. The dead deserve to have a resting place besides being thrown into a trench. The families also need closure. If I were the owner of the property, I would insist upon this. I could not go about my business while being haunted with the thoughts of bodies being burried everywhere. The police need to stop blaming each other. Gacey was an evil man and is, of course to blame for all of this. You could not pay me to live in that building.
I truly believe with all my heart that this location holds the answer to my brother’s disappearance in early 1972. Please don’t let this go. I know I am not the only family of a missing person who is yearning to find closure. Time after time I’ve been shot down and dismissed by the Des Plaines Police Dept and the Cook County Sheriff’s Dept. For 40 years I have followed every possibility of where he could be but have always believed in my heart that Gacy was the answer. I am dying myself from Pulmonary Fibrosis and if there is only one thing that I could cross off my bucket list, this would be it. I pray that your efforts not be in vain and that you will have the final vindication and the undying gratitude of those families who will finally be able to have closure. On behalf of myself, whether this pans out for me or not, and others looking for answers, Thank-you for your time and interest in doing the right thing for strangers you don’t know. May Hid bless you mightily for it.
Noticed this post is from last year. Hope your still around, In case you havent heard, they had reopened part of the gacy case taking DNA samples from family membors. Might want to contact your police dept about it.
S/b God, not Hid…. sorry….
Wheeled Snow Shovel…
Aw, this was an extremely good post. Finding the time and actual effort to create a good article… but what can I say… I put things off a lot and never manage to get anything done….
Does anyone else remember Gacy and his associates in South Hanover Township/ South Bartlett / Northern Wayne Township area? Specifically centered around and close to Shick Road. Sometimes it was Gacy alone in a light green sixties Olds station wagon, and then later he was in a mid sixties black repainted Olds Delta 88. Other times he was with his “associates”. Other times his associates were there without Gacy. To keep my word, I won’t name the places, but 3 of the places involved remote small bodies of water and the remote land around them. I am 99.9% certain I stood on a grave. And this was just a few feet from where Gacy was standing, and there were more smelly dug up spots as well. The stink was there in several areas. I ran into him and/or his associates at least a dozen times and rode in his car once. I have way too much to report in this post. Does anyone else remember Gacy and/or his associates being there?
Do you know if the black repainted car use to be blue. I have personal reason I’m asking. This man’s face has haunted me for years.
I’m sorry…I don’t know if the car used to be blue. He drove several different Olds 88’s. From what I gathered from others he bought several of these same cars.
For over 30 years I have been telling people about some of the events in the post above. I told a few police departments 3 years ago. The post above from “none” on July 4th 2012 is my first public announcement of a few of these events. At least 2 of Gacys associates escaped justice, one of the reasons is that they often worked on thier own. I am not sure sure of the 3rd guy because I only saw him once and he completely ignored me. Whereas the other 2 associates and Gacy did not ignore me. Additionally many families were denied closure. Is there any way to circulate the above post?
In my opinion another reason the associates escaped justice is because 2 major landscaping construction projects took place in Gacy and his associate’s remote stomping grounds. This unfortunately happened to occur around the same time as the Summerdale cleanup at Gacys house. What happened was the police invited the media to camp out and attend the Summerdale cleanup which unfortunately turned out to be the most time consuming and documented cleanup ever. It was described as a media circus. While the police and the media were tied up for months at Summerdale, 2 major areas where Gacy and his associates hung out for years were unfortunately starting to be dug out, drastically changing the landscape and inadvertently destroying years of evidence of Gacy and his associates. By 1980 everything was completely changed in those 2 areas. This unfortunate coincidence, in my opinion, may have allowed the associates to escape and may have presented other problems as well.
In my opinion another reason the associates escaped justice is because 2 major construction projects took place in the areas mentioned above that happened to occur at the same time as the Summerdale cleanup at Gacys house. What happened was the police invited the media to attend the Summerdale cleanup which turned out to be one of the most time consuming and documented cleanups ever. While the media and the police were tied up for several months at Summerdale cleaning up Gacys house, 2 major areas were being dug out by hundreds of feet in the same exact areas where I had seen Gacy and his associates. These 2 areas being dug out were the same 2 areas where I had often seen Gacy and his associates. Sometimes Gacy was alone, sometimes the associates were alone, and sometimes they were all together. These areas were completely changed by 1980. This unfortunate digging event helped to allow the associates to escape justice and raises many questions as well.
Hmm… A duplicate post by “None/Link” of a post by someone named Billy.
For the 13th time. I hid behind false names for awhile at the request of my wife who feared that the police would come drag me away one day… however since she passed away from auto immune diseases in 2015 I am now all in. What kind of a twisted government would protect a serial killer over that of an eyewitness? I will tell you what kind. Cook County, Dupage County and the State of Illinois. Some of the highest corruption rates in the entire country.
Please read the beginning of page 6 of this report and you tell me if it is safe to use your real name in this God forsaken state? Let alone Cook and Dupage County. Yet here I am using my real name now.
Click to access leadingthepack.pdf
[…] I posted the 16,000 word eBook to my site ShadowReports.com so journalists / reviewers would have quick access to it. shadowreports.com/2011/02/07/exclusive-find-the-bodies-if-you-can-should-the-john-wayne-gacy-case-be… […]
[…] at the Chicago Reader at the time), and all declined to use it, so Maloney published the story on a website he created for that purpose. He’d planted a seed. I couldn’t forget what I’d […]
Here is what happened in a nutshell. I am tired pussyfooting around with 30 pages of documents and maps which were given to the police for the last 2 years. The 2 dress alike, act alike, brown haired guys (associates of Gacys) were pretending to fish (with their metal rods) the eastside creek next to the quarry, whacking people with metal rods on the path on the east side of the Deep Quary Lake in Wayne Township of Dupage county before it was filled in with water, one did an air-whacking maneuver (as in air guitar)on me up by the road one day. They whacked them, then weighed them down and dropped them off the cliff into the water below in the small (1 or 2 acre) lake on the south end of the quarry. They took their car keys and stole their car. I caught one of them trying a key on my car. The key must have been for the other car next to mine. The police assumed Gacy did it. The metal rods were like the ones in Gacys trunk ( that is another encounter and another place off of Shick road). (more later).
The 2 brown haired dress alike, act alike, associates of Gacys dropped them off the cliff into the small south end lake. One day I was on the eastside path and I heard a sound coming from the lake that sounded like a 200 pound man doing a cannonball dive from way up high. I left real fast. I was a kid. I tried to swim in that lake once and brushed up against something that caused me to leave real fast. There were also spots of foul smelling disturbed ground where digging had occurred on the topside of the east wall of the quarry. There were several of these areas on the east wall where the brush had been cleared away. I ran into Gacy standing near the dig spots one day. I ran into all those guys several times throughout the years approx 1972-1979. The entire east wall was dug up at the same time Gacy was caught. All I can figure is the police secretly followed them there, or someone talked. According to the Dupage county forest preserve commission that really have no idea why it was dug out, they only offered a guess as to why this entire east wall was dug out from one end to the other. Where are the bodies that the police pulled from the lake and where are the victims that the police dug up? Who exactly came up with the historical idea that Gacy actually moved bodies? Think about it, that’s a lot of work and why would Gacy do this? Who was the man that came up with that idea? Who came up with the idea tht Gacy weighed the bodies down and dropped them from “bridges”, who was that man? (more later).
When I said I was a kid on my July 25th 2012 comment; I was a 20 year old kid which to me is still a kid…
I meant who exactly came up with the historical idea that Gacy actually dug the bodies back up and moved them? Think about it, that’s a lot of work and why would Gacy do this?
None… not that I dispute the validity of your story but I do have to admit that a couple if things give me pause – you posting and then asking to have it retracted and you not identifying yourself. Why so mysterious?
On another note, thanks to the efforts of a certain retired police detective, my older brother was found alive and well. I still stand strongly with this group’s effort to expose more and more of Gacy’s escapades. There are still families that need closure. Let the “egg on the face” be dammed with these PD departments and let’s get this cleaned up once and for all. No sense in leaving it to the next generation.
The police know who I am that is all that will ever be necessary. What I wanted removed was I said “the police had no reports and that included my own reports”, but they are taking my reports, of course they are. They have all been absolutely fantastic to me. I did not wish to make them mad with that incorrect statement. I recently told them, just a couple of days ago that I was going to go public and I am extremely nervous. There are some things that I said I would never tell the public 2 years ago, but I took it back because now I believe in order to catch the associates who many believe are still running around some things need to be admitted such as, at least some of the killings at that quarry, at least enough to put those associates away. I believe the 1979 police incorrectly assumed Gacy did all the killing but they were only half right. I think that the police know who these guys are from other events. There are a couple of attorneys who also know who they are. I saw those associates at that quarry way more than I ever saw Gacy, but I was usually only there during the day. Those associates were murdering thugs who murdered for money and to steal cars and who knows what else. I got away with going there for years because I was a kid who had neither car nor money. My trouble with them began when I got older and finally got a car.
Just to clarify, my troubles with the associates began when I finally got older and got a car. My troubles with Gacy began right away.
The point that I never finished making in my July posts was that there was someone on the Gacy 1979 investigation committee who told reporters and writers a few years back that Gacy had; 1) moved bodies from gravesite to gravesite; 2) weighed victims down with rocks and drowned them; 3) killed women and some older middle aged guys that the police were reluctant to pin on Gacy. That person(s) whoever they were, inadvertently described Deep Quarry where all 3 of those things happened, except the police got a few things things wrong; It wasn’t all Gacy and they let some of the bad guys get away, including Cram and Rossi.
The 2 brown haired dress alike, act alike (and I mean to the tee alike) associates of Gacys had a system where one of them was at the beginning of the path, and one was at the end of the path, both pretending to be fishing with their fake fishing poles (metal rods) As I walked down the path they both would watch you, and the one on the end of the path would scurry up the hill with his metal rod. I saw him use the “fishing pole” (really the metal rod) as a walking stick to get up the hill one day to intercept me, but I turned around. You would then be trapped with one associate at one end of the path and other guy at the other end of the path. On the west side was a cliff going down into the quarry with rocks and 2 lakes. On the east side you were trapped by the creek.
How did I manage to remain unscathed so many times from Gacy and these associates? For one I was a kid, I had my bike with me in the beginning, from 1972 to 1976, after 1976 I sometimes drove my car. I always left quickly every time I got spooked, and there were a few of the times, I would always leave the quarry right away. I also often carried a large rock pick for rock collecting, I often had a pouch of rocks I collected, a wristrocket, 2 pellet guns which was a pistol and rifle that looked like a 22. And in the end I still got in 2 hassle predicaments with the associates. And I also did wind up in John Wayne Gacys car one day, who, to make a long. story short, sweet talked me into putting my bike in his car, and took me to a place he said was a religious campground he had a job at, to meet kids my own age and to shoot balloons in the lake. When we got there he got mad because there were people there and he kept saying “why are these people here”. I later found out it turned out the place was abandoned for years prior to that day. The building stunk very very bad. He scurried like crazy to get into that building and then down to the lake. I cannot name the place because of the sensitive nature of its present use and I made a promise not to diclose the name, however I broke my promise on Deep Quarry Lake because I repeat my 2 questions. Where are the victims the police pulled from the lake, and removed from the east side wall of that quarry? Why were the associates never charged with anything? I still contend the police may have have followed them there, how else could the police have found all 3 places so fast? (More later)
The day the associates came after me on the path, David Cram was in his usual fake fishing spot, and when I turned and looked at him, he had his fishing rod pointed straight at me, I thought nothing of it, but that’s when Michael Rossi left his fake fishing position and used his metal rod as a walking stick to get up the hill and move toward the path I was walking on. I saw him behind the trees doing this. I really thought nothing of it, I wasn’t really afraid or anything, I turned around mostly because I didn’t like those guys. When I did turn around there was a guy there about in his 40’s just coming onto the path entrance. I said hello to that guy and left.
There were also days when David Cram had a real fishing pole, however I never did see Michael Rossi with a real pole, just that short fat silver rod I eventually realized was a thug club and now I believe to be a ramrod too.
For a path that was narrow and, according to your descriptions and “art,” how were you able to see what both thugs were doing? Was it your knowledge of the area that allowed you to escape, whereas the victims couldn’t?
Well, I, for one, am glad you survived your encounters. Your quick thinking and knowledge of the area certainly helped you. It is unfortunate that there was a lapse in your judgement when you ended up in whoever’s car it was after being sweet talked. (Seriously. Although I only believe about 10% of what you write, I think you may have had one or two encounters with people who were up to no good, weather they were Gacy, Cram, and Rossi or not, and I’m happy you survived )
So you carried a rock pick, a bag of rocks, a pellet pistol, and a pellet rifle that was, as you describe it, apparently long enough that it could be mistaken for a .22 caliber rifle all while riding your bike?
Bravo!
Why would you make a promise to, and abide by, a promise made to the very people you are calling corrupt in all these posts?
You seem to mention promises you’ve made in quite a few of your posts. Were these promises made during and around the times of your encounters, or when you reported your encounters, apparently sometime in 2011 or 2012?
If it is the former, how did you make those promises to authorities when you say you didn’t report anything or make contact with authorities at that time?
If it is the latter, I, once again, wonder why you feel compelled to adhere to those promises made to the very people you are upset with.
I only made promises to Commander Frank Bibbiano of Dupage County Police, Eric Roger of the Bartlett P.D., Bartlett Chief of Police Dan Palmer and Shrf. John Zaruba when I thought that they were actually going to do something. I have since taken back my promises. Dave Cram (as I knew him by) and I had many reunions during the mid 80’s, several at them even at my house in Algonquin. His life ended the way a mass murderers life should end. One day, hopefully soon, I will have a reunion with Michael J. Rossi Sr. of Rock Tavern NY. I knew him the least, but remember him well. If I am lying why won’t anyone I accuse of criminal action sue me? ….because they are all guilty that’s why. I blame former Gov. James Thompson the most for this cover-up. There is only one man in IL who can order entire counties to listen to him and that is the Governor. He is a lawyer for Gods sakes, and he won’t do anything to me because he is as guilty as hell and he knows it. I blame Sheriff Tom Dart the second most, he too is a lawyer for God sakes, and he won’t do anything either because he also is as guilty as hell of his own involvement, one of which is his ridiculous fabricated story of Daniel Noe, the “misfortunate mountain climber”, “discovered” one month after I reported to the Bartlett PD where Gacy had taken me (Sunrise Lake). I witnessed Daniel Noe’s murder and I can prove that I was there, but Dart won’t do anything because he has boxed himself into a liar’s corner. Imagine that; a liar who makes up stories in charge of the largest PD in the entire country. He is also guilty of misprision of felony as is Thompson. You would be singing a different tune “Reason” if it was your family which was ripped apart by not just Gacy but Cram and Rossi too. I knew them all and you didn’t. You have no reason to believe me… but Rossi does. Call Rossi up, here is his number 845-496-9285, he knows what I am doing, but he will lie. Have him sue me, please. You can actually talk to a mass murderer who was , and still is, protected by the stupidity of a corrupt Illinois government, Dart and Thompson included.
Call Dart too, while you’re at it.
_Eyewitness to mass murder Frank Marcus, age 61
Mr. Reason, For you to say some of these things you say, there is no way that you read everything I wrote and fully comprehended my statements then. Perhaps your mind was only 10% open and the balance was running on pure skepticism.
Just to clarify….I did not carry all those items on my bike at one time…however I would often carry more items in my car. I have been driving since 1974. I was not a little kid on a bike back then. I am actually older than serial killers Cram and Rossi. I rode my bike a lot back then, and I still ride several times a year even now. I am going over all my postings now because I am supplying a finalized transcript to a producer, at his request. He has a plan and I like it.
Mr. Reason, This is rushed post with no regard for typos. I am older than Rossi and Cram. Yes I rode a bike. At 64 years I STILL ride bikes and have 3 of them. My late wife and I rode bikes all the time, right up to the end. I went to both Deep Quarry and Sunrise Lake on my bike, my dirt bike, my cars, and my van, and my friends were with me sometimes. I did not often carry all that stuff you mentioned on my bike, although sometimes I carried an awful lot of stuff. I was and still am a very good strong biker with packs and bags. I know exactly who you are now. We have met in your office a few years back. You gave yourself away with the 10% statement and a few other things..but I don’t care anymore. You are still OK in my book. You are very good man who had the same hopes that I did. In fairness to you why would anyone believe me anyway…. The assholes have won…. I hope you still have the disgusting thug club I gave you. It is exactly the same club that Gacy had several of in his trunk. I apologize for getting mad at you in earlier posts. Being disbelieved and accused of mental illness set me off. I have a short temper I am sorry. My short temper may have actually helped keep me alive with those guys back then. I really hated those guys. Thank You for everything. It almost all worked out in the end between us, …sort of. After 42 years I am giving up. Yesterday I rescinded the offer with the media guy Ryan G. The offer I told you about most recently. It’s hopeless and risky,..and my earlier postings were catastrophically detrimental to my credibility. My biggest mistake was posting as I clarified my memories, which are now razor sharp. My other biggest mistake was panicking and temporarily retracting my story out of great fear after the first few weeks of public disclosure. I should have waited to start posting. We have all wasted our time haven’t we?
I now admit I had a real gun sometimes…Inherited from my great uncle Carl.
There were rumors that the police secretly cleaned up Gacy murder sites with actions so secretive that even other police officials were not aware of. I firmly believe these rumors to be true.
Our families are what define us, our families are the very reason we exist, for politicians and public officials to desecrate the remains of our loved ones and condemn their physical remains to a mystery fate is beyond apprehension. For these same politicians and public officials to chose saving face over public disclosure of horrendous acts is not what people pay taxes for. The stealth actions of the individuals involved in these decisions directly resulted in cold blooded murderers to remain on our streets (the associates). To what end did it serve to save face over the safety of our families and the dignity of leaving this earth in a respectful manner? To the persons responsible for these decisions I say damn you and the horses you rode in on. –The end
Thank you for this website.
What I typed above were cliff notes on over 30 pages of documents I provided to the police. I came right out and told the police exactly what I thought, but there are no reports from the previous administrations. Whoever did this really covered their tracks. The first time I heard a loud cannonball type noise into the lake at the quarry I was up by the street and I had just got out of my car. I actually heard the boom at the street but wasn’t sure where it was coming from. I was a little older because I had a car by then. Gacys car was not there because I then walked into the Quarry, and I never went into the quarry when Gacys car was there because I was avoiding him at that time. Those 2 guys must have been weighing the victims down with a lot of rocks because the day I heard the boom up close it scared the heck out of me and I left real fast. Thank goodness they weren’t interested in me when I had a bicycle. Those 2 metal rod wielding dress alike, act alike guys murdered a lot of people by dropping their weighed down bodies into the water from the cliff top. They did the 2 victim drops I heard when Gacys car was not even there. But there was a third car there, probably the poor victims. Those 2 guys were as guilty as could be and got away with it because politicians and the police kept it a big secret. They were simple thugs who got away with mass murder because the police thought they had their perp in custody and they were only half right. Those same 2 associates were there with their fake fishing poles (heavy metal rods) for so many years (about 5 years) that I went from riding a bicycle to driving a car. The large scale cleanup operation certainly suggests a lot of victims. Aerial photographs from 1978 shows where the quarry was dug out, and it was all in the areas where Gacy and his associates were luring, clubbing and dropping victims for at least 5 years and sometime burying them too. In order to get the associates, someone will have to admit they performed a major secret cleanup and that “perhaps” they followed them there as well, but there are no reports. There is simply no one for me to ask anymore. The police today are completely baffled by my accounts. There are some people I wish I could put on a witness stand but the police will not do that to their own. What became of the victims remains may remain a mystery unless someone talks. I feel so sorry for the families of missing loved ones.
I now remember even more loud cannonball water drop booms coming from that south end lake at the quarry. One day, when I was a kid on a bike, I heard 1 or 2 water drop booms coming from the south end lake. It was strange enough for me to go over there and just stare at that lake wondering what the heck is going on with these booms. Gacys car was not parked at the entrance, because I never went in there when Gacys car was there because of my first bad experience with him chasing me as outlined in many earlier documents. Those 2 Gacy car thief associates, who dressed alike, acted alike, were thin, about 5’11” dark haired guys with their fake fishing poles (heavy metal rods) turned that escape proof path into an assembly line of death for maybe 4 or 5 years. One at one end of the path and one at the other end, pretending to fish next to an escape proof path. They had the same type rods that I would later see in Gacys trunk. They were about 1 inch OD x 3 to 4 feet long. I am looking for witnesses who may have seen these guys on the east side path between the quarry and the creek. or heard the loud water drop booms coming from that lake in what is now Deep Quarry of Dupage County in the late seventies. Look at my earlier posts from “none” for more details. The police failed us back then and now it is time for the people to take this into their own hands. Where are the victims remains and why did the police just assume it was all Gacy and cover up a large scale cleanup operation at Deep Quarry in Dupage County? Why were these 2 Gacy associates never convicted of (what I think) were a lot of murders?
None, with all due respect, can you write your drafts elsewhere and post here the finished product? You’re cramming my email box with the same info over and over… give us a break… I’m beginning to wonder if you’re trying to convince us or yourself.
None, your comments are certainly interesting, and incredible if true.
Concerning these two associates of Gacy that may have conducted their dirty business at the Deep Lake Quarry: I’m wondering, if a good number of people went missing in this area, why wouldn’t there have been more news about missing persons at the time and searches conducted in the area?
Also, I have a hard time believing that there could have been a police coverup of such a large dig at the quarry. For one thing, why would they cover up such an event. And also, even if there was an attempt to coverup, I believe someone would have eventually talked about it, mentioned it to their family, etc….
The associates would kill them and steal their cars.
The new info in that post was yet another incident of water booms at a different time. 3 total recalled waters booms so far. It takes a long time to fully recall all memories.
Hi Cliff, in July 2012 you wrote;
“…. And also, even if there was an attempt to coverup, I believe someone would have eventually talked about it, mentioned it to their family,….”
My response regarding the “mentioning it to their family” aspect of your initial questionings. I did talk to someone a couple years ago who did tell me about a secret cleanup in Chicago and did so right in front of 3 family members, apparently this type of info just doesn’t go anywhere. When I asked about the conversation later I was told that the conversation never took place. It was a one shot deal, apparently he changed his mind about telling me, but I don’t care because I had figured Deep Quarry out on my own anyway. What happened in Chicago must have been something else.
Witness stand anyone?
Felix Francis Marcus, age 56- eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murders.
The police were corrupt back then, absolutely corrupt, yesterday there was a story in the news about a man who was released from prison when it was discovered that he had been falsely convicted. He had served 31 years in prison. Story after story has emerged about these guys from back then. There are not enough bad words to describe my feelings for the big shots in the government back then. These are the people that the government is protecting right now. They are not protecting us. Before the cameras they are supposedly protecting us, but their actions speak differently, because in secret meetings they are absolutely beyond the shadow of a doubt protecting the dumbasses of 30 years ago.
Hi Cliff, Sorry I did not properly address your question before. I was very busy. Prior to the early 80’s information on all missing persons was informally kept only at local police departments. Back then there were no standard forms and no central database for missing persons. For the associates victims I believe perhaps that most victims with cars and money were probably lured there by Gacy or his associates.For Gacy victims I believe perhaps that Gacy grabbed them right off the street. He came after me from the very first time I noticed him and thats why I avoided him from early on, until the one day I wound up in his car. A luring requirement for the associates could also explain another reason why the associates fake fisherman let me slip past them so many times. A luring requirement could also explain why they plied their evil trade for about 5 years. If I would have disappeared that is one of the places people would have looked for me. They could not not risk losing their “morbid job” over a kid on a bike. Once a lured victims car was stolen or moved all traces of that person ever being there were gone. There must be others like me who also slipped by. For legal purposes I must state that these are all my own opinions.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/quarrythugmap.png/
image of area where the 2 thugs operated. capture the image quickly, this is on a free download website.
I am sorry but it is just the way the posts are working out. I am guilty of intentional flooding that much is certain. Right now though I need witnesses to the big water booms at the quarry and witnesses to the murdering thug car thieves at the quarry. It is a shame that the 1979 saving face mentality has created a stonewall situation where stealth operations has placed a statute of limitations on mass murder. That has got to be illegal in some ways.
The two dress alike act alike brown haired guys (fake fisherman) arrived in a car one day without Gacy as I was leaving the quarry. This may have been the last time I saw them so it was close to 1978. They put on gigantic earth-tone colored backpacks. They were dressed exactly alike again with the same khaki shorts, same hat (like a ball cap) etc. They even had the same exact backpacks. They were a little older now and had shorter hair. I almost didn’t recognize them because they were more clean cut looking, a year or 2 had gone by, and they were not hassling me. One of them took one look at me and quickly looked away. They helped each other put on the large heavy backpacks and one straightened the others hat. They were embarrassingly touchy feely with each other. My impression at the time was that they were gay and I was uncomfortable looking at them when I saw them grooming each other before they hiked out with their giant backpacks. After I realized I recognized them, I turned around and walked back a little and watched them hike down that escape proof path of death towards a suspicious looking spot on the cliff that I stumbled upon in an earlier year. This entire cliff top was part of the area that was dug out shortly after Gacy was caught. On this cliff top there was a small hidden area hollowed out under some small trees that I stumbled upon, a few feet from the edge of the cliff that was just large enough for maybe 2-3 people. That area was almost in the very back of the quarry. Way up high. I think there might have been water below to the small south end lake, the same lake that I heard the big splash boom that made me leave one day, the same lake with all the splash booms I heard. That same lake was also along the inescapable path of death. From inside that hollow, you could peek out between the brush and see out but nobody could see you. There were a few porno magazine pictures with other items that I can’t remember that were strewn about inside of that hollow. There were also maybe a couple hundred small white rocks about an inch long or less pushed into the soft earth. There were no other rocks in this immediate area. The dirt was shiny and well buffed. The area up there was like a farm field and the only other rocks around were in the quarry below. I think I only walked over to that hollow maybe twice, even though I was on the cliff about 4 times. It was well hidden the first couple times I was there and I didn’t see it. I only stumbled upon this little hideaway. I had seen Gacy walk towards this area once with a well dressed Blond haired guy, perhaps he was a victim or another associate. And I recently recalled the incident with the 2 associate backpackers arriving solo. Why did they have such gigantic packpacks that were over their heads? I think this hollowed out area was a preparation site for weighing down victims. Gacy and his associates were both using this site, this was their spot. It is my opinion that the police created a stealth cleanup situation that resulted in no reports, and so complete in its lack of documentation that 2 cold blooded mass murdering associates of Gacys were let off the hook and free to ply their trade, those 2 mass murdering associates were given a lifetime get out of jail free card that we taxpayers paid for. If the 1979 police say that I can’t prove this statement my response to them is “that is exactly my point, stealth cleanup job well done”. It was covered up so well that even today nothing can be done with these associates. The police today have no reports to go on. The laws need to be changed to never let this happen again.
Personally, None, I think you should sign up for a creative writing class at the local community college and do your writing there. Then when you have a polished piece, post it here. And/or see a therapist to work out the obvious issues this has caused you. Just my humble advice….
People like you are one of the reasons I never went public until now. Thank you for providing me the opportunity to point that out. Making false police reports is a major crime. Why am I still uncharged after 2 years and now 40 pages of documents? I am in constant contact with a big name lawyer. This is far from over.
I’m not trying to discourage you from sharing your story… it just sounds like you need help sorting through it all and finding peace with it before sharing it on a site like this. We’re not therapists and yet you’re asking us to go down the road, literally, on your journey with you. You keep retelling the same story over and over and filling our inboxes with it. Get it hashed out on your time and THEN share it with us. I am interested in your story – once – with all the details as best as you remember them… you’ve shared and recanted and reworded until, and I’m pretty sure I’m not alone in this, that it’s so confusing I don’t know what the facts are…. trust me, nobody wants all of Gacy’s escapades become known more than me but I admit I am having trouble coming to terms with such a huge police cover up. I’m not saying it’s not possible, I’m just struggling with it. I worked for the Village of Bartlett for years. I know those police officers and I just don’t see any of them be a party to a cover up.
Wait a minute Peggy, I haven’t recanted anything other than stating that the police were not taking my reports. They appear to be saving my emails, however I haven’t seen one document, or talked face to face with any police officer. I keep adding things thats all. Cut me some slack, its been over 30 years.
All I want are witness right now and also to get some laws changed. Trust me, all Bartlett, Wayne and Hanover officials are 100% innocent, every single one of them. I love those towns, those are my towns too. The 1979 stealth cleanup was not their call. The blame for the associates getting away goes squarely to 1979 Cook County and Dupage County head officials and maybe even one level up from there. I have 2 other Gacy encounters I will not disclose at all, and one is a troublemaking doozy, so I am not looking for trouble. I am not looking for monetary gain or my 15 minutes of fame. I am remaining 100% anonymous except to my friends, family, the police and one law firm. As far as releasing a final I cannot possiibly dump 40 pages and 5 maps into a post that is related to a still ongoing investigation. I am not the only one working on this. But I have the least resources. I have found out from a retired police officer that secret clean ups did happen in Chicago but I do not know where. But I also was told that all families are notified in that type of a situation, so I will drop my question regarding where are the victims. I have no idea how many victims were in those 2 small lakes, but nevertheless, the laws need to be changed so that 2 mass murdering thugs are never given a lifetime pass from prosecution. My full documentation only goes to the police and to one law firm. I will not give my entire story to a post or to any entity. I want witnesses and I need to repeat some things over and over until I get more witnesses. I feel that this is the correct website for now for me to to that. I will probably stop providing updates soon. You certainly have the right to tune me out on my mission of saturated exposure in my quest for witnesses and to get the laws changed. My posts may not be for you Peg, but I have done one suggestion you mentioned about the drafts.
Clarification for above- “2 other Gacy encounters” should read 2 other Gacy encounter “locations”. There were multiple incidents. I am sorry Peg but you are literally making me afraid to provide updates. Your posts are getting me upset and making me screw up by typing 100 mph. I want witnesses to Deep Quarry in Dupage County during the late seventies, not posters who think they are being asked to be therapists.
We cannot ever be witnesses – we were not there. Do your thinking, type up a draft, correct your mistakes, THEN post it on here. You do not need to post updates every half hour for events that happened 30+ years ago. I cannot just block your posts without blocking all posts… or I would. I’m not trying to scare you or keep you from sharing. What I would like you to do is be considerate of the others and our time. Stop using this as a rough draft form while you get your thoughts together. I’m interested in your story but not interested in traveling the murky water you’re going through to get to the final facts in your head.
Clarification to above “The police cordially invited “the media” to attend the Summerdale clean up that lasted many many months.”
When I am done, the only final to the public will be on this shadowreports.com site in the form of many postings. There will not be anything more, ever, to the public, besides the posts I am putting on here. I may copy them and move them to another website if I getted kicked off of here. But that is it. You are reading my finals in the form of many many posts that are only here. The full finals eventually go to the police and one law office and they are the only ones who will ever see those full finals due to certain information that must remain confidential regarding the other places. I have no idea what you are talking about regarding flooding inboxes. That is not happening to me. You must have some wierd setting on your computer triggering that.
One day when I arrived in my car. Just as I pulled in near the main path entrance. I very clearly remember seeing in the distance a large object fall from the cliff top overlooking the small south end lake. It came from about where that hollowed out preparation area was that I described above. Gacys car was not there, so this was most likely another associates victim. I am looking for witnesses who may have thought that they had seen a similar type event at Deep Quarry during the late seventies, or heard the splash cannonball booms, or seen the fake fisherman, all as described above. I think this will be my last post for a while. I will look for replies and questions if any. You can also find Gacy accomplice press release information at http://www.beckerstephenson.com/press.html.
Peg I owe you an apology. I am finally going back and looking at what I did, and what a mess I have made.
It’s ok…. I really am looking forward to seeing where this goes. And I hope you get some help working through the scarring this has all left on you. It’s a shame that there is such evil in this world and so many innocent people get damaged from the havoc it creates. My prayer is that every single victim be found and that all the families get some closure. And I pray that EVERY victim, be they direct or indirect, get the healing they need so they can move on. Hang in there, None.
I don’t necessarily see that None has any scarring. He’s obviously been rehashing alot of memories and trying to get his thoughts in order though.
I actually haven’t seen in any of the reading, however, that None has witnessed any murder, or ever saw a body. There does certainly sound like a lot of odd situations and odd persons there, especially if they were associates of Gacy. But, I’m still having trouble trying to decipher how much of this is from the creative and imaginative mind of an adolescent/teenager and how much from reality (None, how old were you when you were witnessing these things?). I haven’t heard None mention anything about seeing a body, seeing blood, hearing screaming, etc… or anything of that nature (thankfully)…
It’s certainly easy to speculate on what some people were doing at the quarry, For instance, items being dropped from the cliff top into the lake: Might it have been pieces of junk or rocks? I think if somebody were attempting to hide a body it would be alot less conspicuous if they slid the body in the lake from a boat… And why would some bodies be buried at the cliff top and some bodies be thrown into the lake? If they’re trying to ensure the bodies wouldn’t be found, wouldn’t they all be sent into the lake? Seems pretty inconsistent. Not trying to “debunk” you None, just bringing up some preliminary thoughts after doing some reading.
I wonder how deep is this Quarry Lake? Do people ever do scuba diving there? They would potentially see something unusual if there was something unusual to be seen…
Hi Cliff, Last July you said I never actually seen a murder? Well yes I have. All those people who I described laying down motionless, or perched up motionless waiting to be dropped or who disappeared after being accosted by Cram and Rossi were all victims. I made artwork of some of these incidents I had seen. You can see the imageshack links on my postings. I can describe a dozen victims clothing, their looks and where they were dropped into the water by Cram and Rossi who were right there with them.
Cliff, the south lake was tiny then, maybe an acre or 2. I ran into Gacy standing by a foul smelling gravesite on that path. I outlined this spot in a map many times to the police. There were other spots just like it on that path. After I realized that they were not going to investigate my map, then I started to investigate the possiblility of a cleanup. The rumor of the cleanup was that there were a lot of drowned victims. I don’t want to disclose the number I heard yet or my source. I was about 14 when I first started going there( Gacy chased me) and I last seen the associates with those giant backpacks walking towards the “preperation site” when I was about 19. I know what I heard and what I saw. I know the close calls I had. The cops without a shadow of a doubt cleaned this up, and I have literally told them that, and they keep trying talk me out of it because they have no reports.
I am having trouble zeroing in on the exact ages, but this is closer then my guesses above. I was about 14 when Gacy chased me around on my bike. I was about 15 or 16 when I heard the first cannonball splash booms, it was enough to make me go over there just to stare at the lake and wonder what the heck is going on. I was about 18 for the mega boom I was practically on top of, the one that made me zigzag through the forest to escape. I was about 18 when I was in Gacys car. I was about 19 when I saw the object fall from the cliff very close to that spot I described above. I saw it from way back almost by the road. It must have been big. I was about 19 when those guys started hassling me and tried to start my car with someone elses key. I was about 20 or 21 when I last saw them with their giant backpacks. I am 55 now.
I am not good at guessing years, it could be that the associates were there maybe only 3 years but Gacy was there first and was there many years. Exact number of years elude me.
Cliff, there were no boats on those tiny lakes. There were very few people ever in that quarry. I never seen anyone ever fish the quarry lakes in all the years I went there. The fake thug fisherman were pretending to fish the hidden east side creek which ran parallel to the quarry wall and parallel to the path. I was completely alone in that entire quarry (or so I thought) many times in the beginning. The traffic picked up only very very slightly throughout the years. Which is why I think they were somehow luring victims. The traffic picked up when the entire east wall of the quarry was dug out in 1979-80 and then completely flooded in 1980-81. I have no scarring, too many years went by. However I can’t go down paths like that alone anymore. I double lock everything at night. I am afraid of people who look a little bit like Gacy. I get worried when my grandkids go places because those associate thugs were never arrested. So maybe there is a little problem there. The cops had their chance in 1979 to get witnesses but it looks like they completely bypassed the judicial system by assuminng Gacy did all the murders. The associates were there more than Gacy was. Why would they fake fish with metal rods? Why were they there when I heard the splash booms? Why were they checking out strange keys in my ignition? Why did they always arrive in one car? What was with the air wacking on my head? They laughed their heads off then. Why were they hanging out with Gacy at all, for years? Why was the one coming after me with his metal rod, he tried to hide behind trees when doing so but I saw him anyway. Why were they always fishing at opposite ends of the path? Why were the large splash booms so close to where they were fishing? Why were they walking towards that hollow under the trees that looked like a preparation area with giant backpacks? Although I did see Gacy walk towards it too with that blond haired guy, but I did not see them walk all the way to it like I did the backpacking associates. The interesting thing about the blond haired guy was that he was leading the pack when the 4 of them arrived one day walking in single file. The brown haired guys split up and walked a direction I had never seen them walk before, and then he travelled the path along the creek with Gacy and then walked towards that hollow with him. It was the only time I ever saw the blond haired guy. Was he a victim or an associate I wonder? There must have been another preparation area because some splash booms came from the due east wall that was quite hidden from the main view. I gotta go, ask me more questions if you want.
Come to think of it, in regards to fishing that south end lake: one day David F. Cram was at that south end lake with a fishing pole. I can’t remember anyone else with a fishing pole on that lake besides Cram. He was casting out directly below the hidden hollow area where I now realize that he and Rossi tossed victims (area J on my map) and reeling the line back over and over again. I watched him from the time I entered the quarry until the time it took to get back to where he was “fishing” thinking that maybe I should try fishing that little lake. He stopped casting and started to walk away when he saw me approaching him. It was one of the few times I actually said something to him because I didn’t like those guys. I asked him if he was catching anything. He said no. He walked back to resume his endeavor when I left. About 20 minutes later I crossed paths with Cram on the “path of death” as he was returning to Michael J. Rossi.
Hi Cliff, In additional response to your question regarding a goodly number of people disappearing without media attention. Way back when Gacy was first caught, it was common knowledge that there were families of victims of Gacy that were shamed into silence by the thought of their loved one being murdered during a homosexual tryst with Gacy, when in fact they may have been murdered without Gacy even being there by those 2 associates. This “shamed attitude” was in print as well as being talked about verbally. Attitudes toward homosexuality were very much different in the 70’s. There is also another avenue of potential reasoning regarding lack of media attention. I had a neighbor who drowned in a quarry in Elgin about the same time as Gacy being caught. I recently asked the police to check into the true nature of this event to see if the story completely checked out, but nothing happened, which is understandable. If citizens were being told that their kid drowned in a quarry that is the end of the story. Shifting gears, there was one day when I went to the quarry and there were no cars parked at the street and yet those 2 fake fishermen were there. They surprised me when I walked over there. Someone had probably dropped them off.Somebody who may also have been involved. For legal reasons I must state that these are all my own opinions.
For legal purposes I must state that ALL posts listed by “none” with the attached email address are strictly my own opinion and based mostly on my own observations during the late 1970’s along with some recent investigations. I must also state that current police officials have absolutely no public records to verify any of these observations or claims.
As far as trying to determine whether the blond haired guy was a victim or an associate. I would like to state that when the 4 of them walked into the quarry that day in a single file. The blond haired guy was in front, the 2 dark haired guys were second and third, and Gacy was last. The overdressed blond haired guy turned left (east) first, directly in front of me and headed to the path and then Gacy followed him way wide of me, hiding his face the whole way, and the 2 dark haired guys turned right (west). When the 2 associates turned directly in front of me, they were both elbow clutching something in their matching coats on the farside of my vision that they did not want me to see. If those 2 guys were hiding metal rods and the blond haired guy knew they were, my guess is that he may have been involved. He was leading the pack which also raises a question of involvement. He was about 5’10” thin, 150 pounds, well dressed, no glasses, tan colored sport coat with elbow pads, tan dress pants and dress shoes, he had golden blond hair parted on the side. He was way overdressed for a quarry. I am looking for witnesses who may also have seen him there or with Gacy himself somewhere else.
I know exactly what the blond haired guy looked like and what he was wearing, I also know what the older guy on the path looked like and what he was wearing. I could work with a police artist to determine if they were a victim or accomplice.
This is what I think I am going to switch to, just a simple little story to replace that mess above, any suggestions anyone?
Unknown to almost everyone, Deep Quarry in Dupage was a graveyard of both buried and approx 25 drowned victims. In 1979 the Cook County and Dupage County police were ordered to bypass the complete judicial system, and whoever gave these orders created a situation where some of the coldest blooded mass murderers in history were let off the hook for life. Instead of looking for witnesses (like me and others) the 2 counties secretly and incorrectly blamed Gacy for the entire mass murder site, most likely without even telling Gacy himself. The 1979 police secretly dug up the entire east wall of the Deep Quarry gravel pit while Summerdale was being cleaned up at a turtles pace. Sure Gacy killed some of the victims at this quarry, probably the buried ones, but from what I saw the associates were just as guilty or even more so. For 4 or 5 years I watched the associates from a distance working their morbid day job from time to time, After I determined there was a secret cleanup, I then realized the associates were cold blooded murderers, stealing cars, stealing money and who knows what else they did. They came after me once with a metal rod on that path. Gacy came after me several times. I was even in Gacys car once. I had seen the associates there much more than I ever saw Gacy. The associates had a system using an inescapable path of death, hidden from view, on the top edge of the quarry overlooking 2 small lakes, they had a preparation hideaway too that they shared with Gacy for weighing down victims that I stumbled upon. The 1979 police secretly dug it all up without any trace or public documentation of what they did. I am haunted by the hearing of what were loud cannonball splashes of what were most likely victims and the sight of what I eventually realized was probably a falling victim from that preparation hideaway, and Gacys car was not even parked there most of those days, but the associates were there, pretending to fish at opposite ends of the secluded path with their heavy metal rods of death and the cliffs were right there too for quick victim disposal into the lake. I am haunted knowing that these guys are probably still running around loose, forever free of prosecution due to a stealth cleanup so effective that the police today cannot figure it out. I am haunted that the 1979 police will come after me for spilling the beans. I must state for legal reasons that this is strictly all my own opinion and based on my own observations as an eyewitness to the quarry events during the late 1970’s along with some recent investigations. I must also state that current police officials have absolutely no public records to verify any of these observations or claims. Someday the world will know the truth. It is time to change the laws so this never happens again.
There is absolutely no truth to any of my sons postings from “none” in regards to John Wayne Gacy. They are all a hoax.
MY STORY IS NOT A HOAX. On Aug 1st and 2nd, 2012; I temporarily retracted my story as explained below. I went into full panic overload and became afraid of being railroaded by certain angry public officials because Illinois is not the state to mess with especially when it comes to exposing something such as this. I know that I am really pushing some buttons here. But on the flipside, knowing that Illinois is not the state to mess with also makes me realize that Cram and Rossi could be in for a rough ride down the road. Whatever it takes to put them away for life is good enough for me.
There is absolutely no truth to any of our sons rediculous postings from “none” in regards to John Wayne Gacy. They are all a hoax. You have been pranked by a young teenager. Please remove them, this is all very embarrassing for everyone.
Decisions like that would come from very powerful people. Frightenly powerful.
MY STORY IS NOT A HOAX.
None is scared to death of revenge.
I panicked because I thought that I would be arrested by now for spilling the beans (my opinion only) on powerful people. I am very afraid when I think of the big names I am punching in the nose right now. Why didn’t I go to the cops back then? In the seventies the police were not friendly like today. They were to be avoided and some of them railroaded me in ways that showed pure stupidity. I was smacked in the face with a billyclub and booked for carrying a weapon, my weapon was my rock pick in my van which they kept. (thanks officer King). I was put in a straightjacket for a long time in the lobby of the police station for “forgery” my supposed forgery was an improperly filled out “license applied for form” by a currency exchange, a clerical error. They were out of jail cells so they put me in a straight jacket. I spent 3 days in jail on a holiday weekend for that. Everyone I knew was gone and nobody to bail me out. Also a 100 percent pure B.S. fleeing and eluding charge for riding my dirt bike 2 doors down, I stopped at the door knocked and went into my friends house. When I came out I was arrested and they towed my bike and my car to “teach me a lesson” and damaged both. I was railroaded in court for that B.S. felony (thanks officer Tapper) and that started a downhill slide. Some of the 70’s cops were blooming idiots in my opinion. And there were more incidents, but enough, that is why I never went to the cops for anything after that. There were good cops too though, Bartlett had good cops. I knew those associates were bad, and that Gacy was bad, but there were a lot of bad people around back then. I just never fathomed how bad those associates and Gacy really were.
I think the bigger reason I never went to the cops back then was that there was really nothing to report. Back then it looked like 2 creepy guys that were fishing the creek all the time that occasionally hung around with another creepy guy in an oldsmobile. They had metal walking sticks and appeared to have lots of different friends that would come and they would all go to the lake together. Sometimes they would sit down or lay down and break out a cooler. And they threw large objects in the water. What was there to report back then? Even at 20 I was still basically a naive kid.
There was one other reason I kept a lot of it to myself, I ran into supposed “experts” who called me a liar which is frustrating and painful beyond anything you could ever imagine. Michael Rossi and David Cram belong in the serial killers hall of fame for being 2 of the greatest con men serial killers of all time. And that is not just an opinion but a fact, a fact that goes unproven unless I find more witnesses. Maybe they killed them all because they were very very good at it, maybe they still are.
The fact that I did not go to the police back then should not be a factor at all in determining whether or not to fix this problem of Rossi and Cram still running around. Maybe I am looking at this all wrong when it comes to not going to the police back then. If the police had conducted a proper investigation in 1979 and disclosed the mass murder site to the public and looked for witnesses to suspicious activity I am certain that I would have gone to police and others would have as well. I found out during my investigation that some of the people who worked on the 1979 cleanup were told that it was all young boys who were murdered. Even those cleanup workers were not being told the truth because I saw a woman being led to the hidden hollow, and many slightly older guys who were definitely not young boys being accosted by Cram and Rossi. Like I said before, this is one of the most screwed up situations ever. It may be so screwed up that we, the people of 2012, will never know the truth of what really happened. One truth is certain though, Cram and Rossi are the 2 luckiest mass murderers of all time, they could have been executed 20 years ago, alongside their boss and friend John Wayne Gacy.
I later remembered that I I did talk to the police around 1981. I art worked his face and put it on one of my photobucket accounts. He drove a 1967 of 68 Blue Eldorado with “ELROD” licence plates. He actually drove Elrod around he said. He was a Cook County police officer. I could find his name if I really wanted too. We talked a long long time on 2 occasions. He was a really great guy.
A straightjacket? Were they running short of handcuffs at the Police Station?
So, they hit you with a blackjack in your very first encounter with them? You sure you didn’t have more than just the few encounters you’ve mentioned? It seems like the petty crime rate in Chicago would have been a lot lower during that time period if they treated everyone like that.
Of course, their jail cells were apparently disappearing and they were running out of handcuffs, forcing them to use straightjackets, which, although appropriate in some cases, were also hard to come by outside of mental institutions, so, I suppose maybe they were frustrated and took their frustrations out on small time hoodlums.
They did have good memories, though, as displayed by their remembrance of someone caught riding a dirt bike once, carrying a weapon once, and forging a document once. The same officers must have been on duty all the time.
Would you like to talk more about this, “downhill slide,” you mention?
Musicmonte.
Please look at this video below. This is what some Streamwood cops do. These are the cops that give all cops a bad name. The 70’s and 80’s was not exempt. This asshole cop got caught on video otherwise he would have gotten away with it. Before camera phones it was even worse. When I say the cops needed to be avoided back then I am not kidding. Streamwood, Hanover Park and Elgin were my main stomping grounds and trust me, you could not approach these guys. I even knew a sweet young woman who was beat to hell back in the early 80’s by cops. They put her in the hospital with a broken spine by throwing her into a steel bar of some sort . She was handicapped for life after that. They treated my friends and I like criminals for doing nothing back then. I also knew 2 crooked cops, one Streamwood cop and one Cook County deputy that smoked weed and snorted coke back then too. They took it from suspects and then kept most of it. However I have 3 cop cousins in my family and I like to think that they were different.
As for my downhill slide I mentioned it was 100% traffic violations I was guilty of. I was never busted for drugs, or drinking, or anything. I am pretty clean but the cops were just too mean to approach back then. I got robbed once in Elgin and went to the cops. The cops detained me for hours accusing me of being a drug dealer whose deal went bad. Fuck the cops back then, they were jackasses.Here is the video.
musicmonte; I am not a thug…never was…that officer (King)….hit me in the face (mentioned above) with his billy club and took my rock pick from my van…that he then “lost” in 30 minutes..I got instantly let off on that “carrying a weapon charge”…my weapon was a rock pick I made in shop class ..The asshole Streamwood cops kept it forever…my main High school shop class project.. there are good cops and there are “fucking cops”..there is a difference..That bully jackass cop (King) got busted a few times..it was in the papers…I have never been arrested for anything in my entire life except traffic tickets.. Dupage County put me in a straight jacket because someone at a currency exchange did not properly fill out a licence applied for form…WTF IDIOT COPS…they were out of jail cells in Dupage County…I guess that’s what happens when the NAZI Dupage County police arrest LOTS OF people for nothing…I got let off on that one too …but by then I had spent a few days in jail…FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING… That idiot cop could have let me off but he was a POS cop like so many of them were back then…bully’s with a badge and a gun..I am not a thug…never was…but some cops were…I have cousins who are/were cops…I apologize to them but they work for a criminal organization.
I just realized last night that I have in my possession one of the metal rods those guys used, that I found stuck in the ground way back then, standing straight up, near the L-shaped area that I drew in my map where they were killing victims and throwing them in the lake.
I picked up this rod and carried it home, and I still have it. The rod is 0.75 DIA X 27.62” long Aluminum and beat to hell. They beat the hell out of this rod. I remember picking it up that way. I saw them with these same type rods a bunch of times, swinging them around, they were getting casual in the end about carrying them, swinging them around while they walked many times from the fishing spot to the hidden L-shaped area that was the chamber of death where they killed and tossed people into the water, this is where most splash booms came from. These rods were also their fake fishing poles. They look just like the poles that I saw in Gacys trunk. Gacy killed people too of course but he also drove the associates to the quarry from time to time. They got their ride home by stealing cars from the victims. I offered the rod I have to the police, lets see what happens. I drew the police another map of the area that was dug away during the Summerdale excavation and showed them the areas where people were murdered and tossed, lets see where that goes too. Every map I ever drew gets looked at and quickly dismissed (no records to verify) so far. I also remembered last week, that I once saw both associates collectively throw an object with what I thought were funky table legs into the water and they both watched it until it landed and splashed. They did not see me thank God. I was 30 feet away and their backs were turned. I went around the lake curious and expecting to see floating wood but saw nothing. This was a victim they tossed that I witnessed, one holding the arms and one holding the legs. They both stared at it until it went splash. I heard many splash booms, the booms grew louder over the years. I saw a falling victim from the hidden hollow, and I think I saw a victim in the corner of my eye fall from that L-shaped area once. I watched the associates run up and down that path from fake fishing spot to the L-chamber on the lake. They carried the rods and they carried big rocks 2, 3 or 4 to a fist. It was business as usual to these idiots. I wonder how many they have killed by now. I saw them lead people into the L-shaped chamber while the one stood guard at the entrance and the other one spoke to the victim softly yet sternly. The victim was around the corner where he could not be seen. I saw all this and there is nothing I can do about it because the police have no records. I read a lot of stories about officers talking to all of Gacys friends, these same officers need to come out of retirement, or new ones, and arrest these thugs and blame them for at least the one murder I saw let alone mass murder. Des Plaines cops must know these guys as Gacys friends. In my opinion the cops won’t do anything now either. Can you imagine, mass murder not properly investigated 30 years ago and not now either. One officer will look it up and say “there are no records so I can’t do anything”.
I keep remembering more and more because I can remember a great deal of a lot of things I have seen and done, but it takes a very long time to access the memories when there are so many of them. The mass murderers are still out there. I need more witnesses like myself, others must have slipped by those guys too. I need to get my map out to the public to jog memories for witnesses. The map shows the areas dug up while Summerdale was being excavated. This area contained Gacy and the associates path of death. I cannot believe I was never murdered. I walked that path several times and I was even in Gacys car for goodness sakes. For legal reasons I must state in regards to the mass murder claim these are all my own opinions and that the police today have no records to verify any of this.
There is one more entry here: I spent most of my time in the main body of the quarry looking for rocks, shooting my pellet guns, slingshot, etc. and very rarely went onto the path where the fake fisherman were. From the main body of the quarry, and looking across the south end lake,even from the extensive span of my vantage point, I would see, perhaps 3 or 4 times on separate occasions 3 people standing in that same pattern in that sunken L-shaped area overlooking the south end lake, one near the “door” looking toward the lake, and 2 facing each other on the edge of cliff which had a good size platform to stand on. All three always about 20 feet apart.The same pattern as described above that I would also see from the pathside eventually. I once saw the third guy laying down with a cooler near him, The other 2 dress alike thugs walking back and forth around him. At the time it looked like a picnic scene to me but now I realize it must have been another victim, it always ended in a victim, weighted down and tossed into the lake with a splash boom cannonball noise I heard many times. With the exception of Gacy and that overdressed blond haired guy once, the 2 mass murdering dress alike thugs had no other company there. I knew what Gacy looked like from my previous bad run ins with him, and the people the 2 thugs talked to on that ledge did not have Gacys body shape.
Clarification to above. “FOR THE FIRST FEW YEARS” I spent most of my time in the main body of the quarry looking for rocks, shooting my pellet guns, slingshot, etc. and very rarely went onto the path where the fake fisherman were. I increased my frequency of going on the path toward the later years. I hope I am done posting forever now.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/259/deepquarry1979beforeeas.jpg/
LINK TO aerial quarry image 1978, download quickly because this is a free anonymous image site with cutoff date. If you compare this image to aerial images after 1979 you will see where the area was dug up. This digging occurred while gacys home was being slowly excavated while the media was slowly watching. The area dug up which was the entire east wall from front to back even around the bend was where gacys friends (his 2 dark haired dress alike friends would hang out from approx 1974-1978. Once in a great while gacy would go there too. It was the 2 thugs that were tossing people in the lake and accosting them on the L-shaped ledge. I sure hope the police killed those 2 animals 33 years ago, that would sure explain everything. All I can do is guess right now because I have no idea what the police really did in regards to those 2 thugs. For legal purposes I must state that these are my own opinions and that the current police have no reports to verify anything I state.
Clarification to the above: The 2 thugs had no other company fishing with them or walking around with them that is. New arrivals on the path would wind up on the L-ledge with Cram and Rossi in that same pattern. I can’t help but wonder how those people were being lured there, this was an extremely remote area. There must have been a system in place.
I am shipping Rossi and Crams metal thug club tomorrow to the authorities and decided to look at it under a magnifying glass first, and after doing so I can’t wash my hands enough. I am pretty sure this thing was used heavily as a ramrod to push stones. Thank God I realized what it was. I can’t get rid of it fast enough. The day I found it both Michael Rossi and David Cram were there. I walked behind Rossi guarding the entrance in his usual position when they were accosting a victim. It was very very tense.
The day I took the club from that spot shown on my map, both Cram and Rossi were inside the L-ledge accosting yet another victim. I had no clue it was theirs at that time. Rossi was standing guard in his usual spot at the entrance to the L-ledge. He silently stared a hole through me as usual when I passed him standing there, but this time he was also staring at the club I was carrying. I had unknowingly taken one of their clubs. When I got up to my car, I tossed it in the trunk and noticed that one of them had almost caught up to me. I did not like those guys so I took off before he got there.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/thugclubandramrod1.jpg/
and
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/thugclubandramrod2.jpg/
Here are 2 pictures of the club club/ramrod I had unknowingly taken from them, I think it was Crams, he was the one without the thug club when I passed them accosting another unfortunate victim on the L-ledge. This thug club mass murder weapon is now in the hands of the authorities.
The guy chasing me to get the club back stopped running when he saw me pull away in my car. I didn’t connect it at the time but now I know.
After 2 years of absolutely nothing happening, today I give up. My wife thinks I’ve lost it and thinks divorce is right around the corner, the kids ask no questions and look at me like I’m nuts. I can’t sleep well. I fear retaliation on a daily basis from old cops and politicians. The grandkids don’t know and maybe never will. Today’s young police officers talk to me like they are pacifying a lunatic. Those guys win, Joe wins, Elrod wins, Doria wins, Thompson wins, maybe a few FBI guys, some of which came up with that absolute jackass plan of the century. The biggest winners of all are the 2 dress alike mass murdering (murdering at the quarry from about 1974-1978) thugs who remained or will remain free of the many many mass murders at Deep Quarry for life, both in their early 50’s now. And the biggest losers, that’s us, the taxpayers, the ones the government were supposed to protect, and failed to, in the biggest failure of policing ever in the history of police work.
The postings from “none” above starting July 4th (how symbolic) and ending today are my only entered internet documents as an eyewitness, last witnessed at age 21, to this event ever and are quite incomplete. For legal reasons I must state that all my posted opinions by me are all my own opinions and that the current police have absolutely no public records to verify any of my claims. However my eyewitness acounts are 100 percent accurate as witnessed by me.
Those were some mean words I said. I wish I could take them back now. That was wrong of me. I’m sorry.
I now remember exactly what those 2 thugs looked like. I could now identify them easily from old photos. I also remember more victims now as viewed from across the lake a year or 2 before I ever went down that path of death, both standing and laying down, always motionless when laying there. How brazen those 2 animals were. The police do not seem to care about any information that I bring to them about this, no police interest at all, not even in one of the thugs death clubs. I have even gotten mad and said some pretty bad things to the police about the 1979 police, yet they still ignore me. There is one explanation that could explain all this; I wonder if those 2 animals never made it out of that quarry alive?
Does anyone know where I can get pictures of John Wayne Gacys friends? I know exactly what those guys looked like. One long faced droopy eyed guy with kind of a crooked face and the other one was more normal looking with somewhat dark handsome features. Both in their early 50’s now, if they are still alive that is.
Actually don’t send me information on where to find pictures. I want to find them on my own. I do not want to be predisposed to what the thugs looked like. That way my findings will be without outside influences.
I need to give the police a chance to think about some of the things I have sent them, often times I am too impatient and argumentative for my own good.
Shifting gears; Amongst the victims I viewed from across the lake that were accosted on that L-shaped ledge were a man and a woman. The 2 thugs were in their usual positions on the L-shaped ledge as shown on my map (F and G,see link). One thug guarded the entrance, and the other thug talking to the victims. The man and woman were clutching each other in the furthest portion of that L-shaped area. They then all left together. Minutes later they were all on the cliff walking toward the hidden hollow under the trees (area J on my map, see link), the woman struggling to walk in her tight black skirt and heels. And once again there was no Gacy or his car to be seen anywhere. The thugs were operating alone as usual. I left the quarry and looked back to see the thugs and the couple walking up there. Gacy did not kill the majority of those people in that quarry. The mix of people accosted on that ledge did not even fit his M.O. He was the killer of boys, it was too bad he didn’t kill those 2.
Actually I cannot state that Gacy did not kill the majority, I really don’t know that, after all I was in school a lot, I worked a lot, and I was rarely there at night. But when I was there Rossi and Cram were there by far more than Gacy was.
At this time I have no idea how many victims there were. I can only guess by looking at the spike in drowning stats, the victims were most likely spread out amongst many counties and maybe even time released to buffer the hidden murder stats. Someone started looking at breaking that down for me. For some reason that person has not gotten back to me yet. I originally estimated 25 drowned victims but will not know the more accurate estimation until this person gets back to me.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/rossicramscenario5.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/11/rossicramscenario6.png/
These images are crude artwork of when I saw David Cram and Michael Rossi accosting the young couple on the L-ledge of the south end lake as described above. They then all moved to the hidden hollow as described above in one of the Aug 10 posts.
During the late 70’s, just like old Mallard Lake, the small north end Deep Quarry lake had many broken balloon fragments washed up on its shores (perhaps from Gacy and his air gun activities that he talked about and I mentioned in previous posts) but Cram and Rossi’s Deep Quarry south end lake had a different type of refuse on its shoreline; for it had more than its fair share of small and tiny pieces of paper some balled up and some flat, there were small wrappers, small litter, and tiny shards of clothing type materials washed up on its shores. If anyone ever sees a shoreline on a small lake with that type of condition it may warrant a closer look.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/594/seeingrossicramscenario.png/
I had to reload and rename this one because it was removed by imageshack.
I located a man who even after 1/3 century still bears an incredible resemblance to one of the thugs who were killing people and tossing them in the lake. The dark hair, the correct age, the unique features of his face, the droopy eyes, the downward turned mouth, the unique profile of his face, even his body shape and posture are right in line with one of the men I tried my best to avoid in that quarry. Our occasional quick crossings were the unavoidable ones. If this is him, he was the thug at the far end of the path who walked up to accost the victims on the path, and also the thug who guarded the path entrance to the L-shaped inescapable ledge while the other thug did the talking. If this is him, he was recently busted for being a pedophile and lost his job, and according to one site, he also left a trail of pedophile type behavior at another location, spanking boys, employing boys, sex texting boys, strong community activism and support. If him, this man shares the same name as a man prominently featured in many Gacy articles, a survivor viewed by many as almost a hero of sorts, a young man who, along with his young friend, somehow miraculously survived Gacy to the point of even working in his crawlspace. If he is not the guy I saw in that quarry then it is his twin brother. I am waiting results to see if I am right. I realized 33 years ago that something was not right with those 2 guys always throwing large objects into the lake, the objects falling from the cliffs, the metal club walking sticks, trying a strange key in my car ignition, doing an air wacking maneuver on my head, carrying rocks, the strange meeting formations on the ledge, etc,etc. With no news ever happening I did not concern myself much. It was only after an easily investigative discovery about 6 weeks ago, did I start to realize the full scope of what went on around me in that quarry. I did a little recent research and found that formal police investigations take considerably more time then I thought, even sometimes, although rarely, up to 2 years. Perhaps that is why the police are not getting back in touch with me. I am simply not giving them enough time. The wheels of justice turn slowly, but they do turn. There are still other possibilities that would explain everything:
1) The animals never made it out of that quarry alive, and the 1979 police simply don’t want to talk about it.
2) The present day police already knew a lot of things, and were recently already working on it before I ever came along, it is quite possible I was slowing them down.
If you think back to when Gacy was caught, the shock of what unfolded was unimaginable and most likely triggered governmental reactions at the very breaking point of reasonable human planning in regards to mental endurance; there is just no school for that sort of thing. Or more simply, shocking events trigger shocking plans. When I dwell on that, I am left with no alternative but to formally apologize for my name calling in regards to the 1979 plan. The police recently asked for the publics help on finding more victims. I was only trying to help as an eyewitness and discovered more than I bargained for, I overreacted and I am sorry. I am sure the police will do the right thing. It’s only been six weeks.
To the above I forgot to state: for legal reasons I must state that all my posted opinions by me are all my own opinions and that the current police have no public records to verify any of my claims. However my eyewitness acounts are 100 percent accurate as witnessed by me.
I am taking this off the table “The animals never made it out of that quarry alive, and the 1979 police simply don’t want to talk about it.” There is no way that happened. That is not an option to me anymore. I am 99.9% certain that the pedophile I found on the internet is the cold blooded mass murderer from the quarry. He worked in Michigan for many years after Gacy was caught, in the same area that Gacy worked during the late 70’s. That might be how Gacy found him. Now he is in NY. The only way he is not the mass murderer is if he has a twin brother.
none, can you please tell me what area of Michigan they were working in?
As I reported last year, I may have been wrong about the associates being in Michigan for years after Gacy. I had confused similar high school names. However according to many sources Gacy was definitely there many times spanning many years, but I don’t know who accompanied him on his Michigan trips. Not researching it to any degree, I am not even sure of the specific areas. About 2 months ago Tom Dart was looking into Gacys Michigan trips to help locate cold case victims. The story I read was in the Luddington press back in the early 80’s. I think maybe Tom Dart could help you with the specifics on all of Gacys Michigan trips.
Sorry. I noticed your revision as I continued to read. I have a question about that third possible accomplish you drew the picture of. How old would you guess the guess was at the time? It sounds like he was older than Rossi and Cram considering there was some balding and some gray.
Teri Lampron
On May 27, 2013 2:26 PM, “ShadowReports” wrote:
** none commented: “As I reported last year, I may have been wrong about the associates being in Michigan for years after Gacy. I had confused similar high school names. However according to many sources Gacy was definitely there many times spanning many years, but I don’t k”
I would guess that the third abductor was a little under 40 at the time. His hair was still quite blondish yellow with just a tinge of gray on the sides. I would not call him an accomplice to Gacy that day. I did not see Gacy there that day because whenever I saw Gacys car parked at the entrances I would turn around and leave. He appeared to be assisting Cram and Rossi that day.
I found a picture and name of the other mass murdering thug, it was my first guess and it was no surprise. Let’s see what happens now. There is nothing left for me to do now except wait.
I witnessed David Cram and Michael Rossi (Gacys friends) throw a human being who was wearing dark jeans with high top tennis shoes into the lake precisely at the area just north of spot K on my map. I witnessed this from the path very close to spot F on my map. Spot F was typically where Michael Rossi stood guard with a metal club when accosting their victims. However Rossi and Cram were busy disposing of a human being at that time. Their backs were turned to me as they heaved the body. The bodies shielding the full view of what they threw. I saw the object only after parallax allowed me to do so. They both watched it go to the full decent until it landed with the familiar sound of a splashboom, a boom I would hear many times whenever they were around. They did not see me because they were too busy watching the victims decent. I quickly went around the bushes and strained to see what they threw into the water but could not see anything. I stayed hidden in the bushes until they left. Both Rossi and Cram completely left the quarry then. They never did see me. I dismissed this odd event as probably being a table with funky table legs. I then went down to the lake expecting floating wood but saw nothing floating. With no reports of anything ever happening in that quarry the event was dismissed as an illusion. Until 33 years later when I discovered the large scale secret cleanup. If the police were to unhide their reports (if possible) they will find a human being with jeans and high tops at precisely the point I mentioned. They will also find many more human beings all around the cliffs edge of the lake. I estimate at least dozen people were killed around me due to falling objects, splash booms, victims laying down or sitting up in a crumpled heap while propped against David Crams legs with Michael Rossi fetching the cooler. I would like to formally make charges against those 2 for the murder I saw. But it would probably be a lesson in futility additionally I am scared to death of those 2 mass murderers.
The futility lies in the fact I do not know of any other witnesses yet, most events were circumstantial in the minds of a defense attorney, I am 99.9% positive on the ID and not 100% because people do change after 33 years. Hypothetically speaking if it ever went to the next step, my life would never be the same if they were acquitted. I would become afraid of everything. These guys were the disciples of Gacy.
This is my last post, goodbye.
-none
The post above wasn’t the last post but I am trying to get away from posting, I have given the police enough information, certainly they can find out whether or not the Michael Rossi pedophile I found in NY is the same guy that worked with Gacy, I am 99.9% certain that it is. The 2012 police can certainly pick up the other 0.1%. I can’t find anything on David Crams internet whereabouts except 1 old 1979 newspaper clipping pdf with his photo. Looking back Cram was the one that I usually saw near the laying down person first on that L-ledge with Rossi initially standing in his customary position near the entrance to the L-ledge. I could not find any pictures at all of the 1979 Rossi, maybe Rossi wanted it that way. I keep thinking of more laws that probably need to be changed but I am not a lawyer so who am I to say. This is a mess and those guys are still out there. I wish the webmaster would lock me out from posting, I want to be done with this. I want those mass murdering thugs to be put away. If you have information to contribute please contact the Cook County Sheriffs office or Becker-Stephenson or both like I do. Please remember that the police will only take information and will generally not get back to you, that is how it worked for me, understandably so.
The police can certainly find out if this is the same Michael Rossi, the question is do they have the time and resources, with 400-600 murders a year in the Chicagoland area they have their hands full let alone what happened 33 years ago. Could it be possible that this is actually low on the totem pole? I have absolutely no idea what is going on with this. If Cram or Rossi lived in the same town as me I would be crawling out of my skin right now. I found the lowlife Rossi in NY but where is the lowlife David Cram? There are so many guys with that same name, I have got to find that sub-human fungus.
Someone pointed out a video that David Cram is in, but he is hiding in the shadows, so apparently the reporters found him. I remember him well from that quarry. Where is he now? What is his middle initial? I started looking at some literature at what those 2 were telling the cops back then, I had to stop, it was nauseating, the show they must have put on, when all the while they were 2 of the biggest mass murderers in history at that quarry. Teenage con men hiding behind their supposed youthful innocence.
let me try this again, here is the Cram video
OK CHRIS, go ahead and lock me out. What a confusing mess I have made due to so many posts, I am only making it worse so therefore I am done. You have my email because I sure can’t find yours. Thanks for the use of your website.
Sometimes people will ask me a specific question about an item relevant to Gacy and his associates. I would like everyone to understand that it takes time to properly answer a question about something that happened over 30 years ago. Don’t expect an instant answer. Clarifying old memories often takes a long time. The supposed experts are the worst offenders of this expectation of an instant answer
The original purpose of my postings was to anonymously look for more witnesses as well as document my progress as I went along and concluded what happened at Deep Quarry in Dupage County during the late 1970’s. There are still many unanswered questions. Beware of postings by people who claim to be me but so far I haven’t seen any. To see the time progression, you would have to sort by date all the postings of none.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/88/rossicramscenario1.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/502/rossicramscenario2.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/685/rossicramscenario3.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/32/rossicramscenario4.png/
These images are on a free anonymous download site, download quickly before they are gone. These images are crude artwork of what I saw Cram and Rossi doing back in the late 70’s on the L-ledge of the south end lake. I saw each of these scenarios multiple times. At that time I didn’t think much of it. It looked like people laying around by a lake, maybe a little drunk, maybe having a picnic, maybe partying, etc. I certainly didn’t think it was an assembly line of death at that time. After my recent discovery of the large scale secret cleanup in 1979 I now know the truth of what those 2 were up to. There are more images coming later. I still haven’t located David Cram. I still don’t have word on whether or not the NY pedophile I found on the internet with 99% certainty is the same guy that worked with Gacy in his crawlspace.
I almost forgot to mention that I often thought those guys were drug dealers. There were a lot of people selling drugs back then, drug dealers were openly selling drugs at many forest preserves in the area, the police didn’t clean up the forest preserves until around 1979. What I saw on the ledge with the meetings often times looked like a drug deal with Cram facing the victim. Rossi guarding the path. It was not too unlike drug deals I had seen going down in other places. There were people with their hands out, there were exchanges, there were people who appeared to be falling down drunk or falling down stoned. The cops really screwed up by not investigating those murders and hiding them from the public. What kind of loopholes of corruption were there back then! By continuing this farce of denial, the current police are perpetuating the corruption.
http://imageshack.us/photo/myimages/715/seeingrossicramscenario.png/
I needed to download a new one of the one below. This was on a free download site. I fear all the artwork will be gone someday unless I do something. The major is media is doing except drinking the governments caca cola koolaid .
Typing that post without my glasses was a disaster.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/571/seeingrossicramscenario.png/
One of the images listed above was deleted by imageshack. This was a victim in a red shirt.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/225/davidfcramandmichaeljro.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/davidfcrampointingatmea.png/
These 2 links are for my crude artwork showing how David F Cram and Michael J Rossi tried to accost me one day when I walked the path of death.
Fortunately I turned around, not because I was afraid but simply because I did not like those guys. I avoided them and Gacy as much as possible. I am still looking for other witnessess who also turned around.
This is a free download site so download quickly.
This crude artwork is on a free download site so download quickly.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/442/rossicramaccostingvicti.png/
This crude artwork shows mass murderers David F. Cram talking to a victim and Michael J. Rossi guarding the entrance to the L-ledge. I had seen this same setup several times when walking down the path. Most of time when I saw Rossi and Cram accosting people from the pathside, I had lucked out by entering the path from the south side by walking around the quarry. The accosting direction for the path of death was to enter the path from the north side which is something I rarely did because I always tried to avoid those guys.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/526/rossicramdroppingvictim.png/
This crude artwork shows the incident where I couldn’t believe my own eyes and I dismissed this split second event as an illusion of funky table legs being tossed into the lake because there were never any reports of anything happening at the quarry along with the fact that those guys (Cram and Rossi) were always there for 3 to 4 years. If the 1979 police had conducted a proper investigation and looked for witnesses to suspicious activity I certainly would have brought this one (blue jeans, high tops and precise location) and other activities to their attention 33 years ago. If the police were to unhide their 1979 records I can point out a lot of incidents with sufficient detail to prove I was there as a witness and hopefully put Rossi and Cram away for life. There must be other witnesses as well. There is more on this event typed up in an earlier post on Aug 13th.
Keep in mind that at the speed of gravity this event of the victim I saw with high top shoes and jeans tossed into the lake by David F. Cram and Michael J. Rossi happened in 1/10th to 1/16th of a second. How many people would believe their own eyes when viewing an event with that short of a duration? Considering the fact that David F. Cram and Michael J. Rossi were there for years before and after I viewed this event, why should I have thought that I saw a human victim? So I dismissed it as an illusion until my 2012 investigation revealed a secret cleanup at Deep Quarry in Dupage. I am positive beyond a shadow of a doubt about this cleanup. The police need to unhide their secret records and they will see that I am right about the description of that victim as well as the descriptions and locations of the other victims I told them about. Only a witness can do this, therefore I must have been there many times.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/805/seeingrossicramdropping.png/
For some reason I had to download a new image of this one.
I had walked completely around the west side of the quarry one day, this was the side of the quarry that was opposite of the path of death. I circled back along the tree line on the cliff, and when I got about 25 feet west of the hidden hollow under the trees I saw Cram and Rossi bringing a man in his mid to late 20’s with long shaggy curly brown hair who was wearing an open safari type field jacket with multiple long leather accessories hanging around his neck and dressed like a hippie. He was walking fast and staring straight ahead toward that hollow with Cram and Rossi just behind him. I stood there in the trees and luckily none of them looked at me even though I was only about 25 feet away when they entered the hollow. I then started walking away and when I was about 50 yards away from the hidden hollow I heard a thumping or booming noise that made me look back. A few seconds later the dressed alike Cram and Rossi were the only 2 to emerge from that hollow and they quickly walked back toward the path. They walked side by side, just like they always did after leaving from a kill, and walked right out of the quarry just like they always did after a kill. Probably to take the victims car I would imagine. The guy they brought into the hollow was a hippie type so I thought that maybe there were people partying in that hollow so I walked over and looked inside the hollow and there was nobody there. The guy that they had brought in there had vanished. I looked around and I could not see him anywhere. If the police were to unhide their 1979 records they will find that there was a guy matching that description that was dropped from that spot by Cram and Rossi.
This is the link for the artwork which shows the man described above on Sept 9 who disappeared from inside the hidden hollow when brought there by Cram and Rossi. He was dressed just like in my artwork. I remember exactly what that guy looked like too.
This is artwork showing when I saw Cram and Rossi accosting and bringing a victim onto the L-ledge. I saw this exact scene a couple times. The victim in my artwork scenario was a thin older guy with side parted greyish hair, perhaps mid 40’s or so. He was nicely dressed in an earthtone windbreaker and wore casual slacks. I remember exactly what he looked like too.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/seeingrossicramtakingvi.png/
Here is the artwork for the guy described above who vanished from the hidden hollow. This is how he looked.
I think I need to repost this one, it was hanging in moderation limbo for 5 days.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/seeingrossicramtakingvi.png/
This is the link for the artwork which shows the man described above on Sept 9 who disappeared from inside the hidden hollow when brought there by Cram and Rossi. He was dressed just like in my artwork. I remember exactly what that guy looked like too.
This is artwork showing when I saw Cram and Rossi accosting and bringing a victim onto the L-ledge. I saw this exact scene a couple times. The victim in my artwork scenario was a thin older guy with side parted greyish hair, perhaps mid 40′s or so. He was nicely dressed in an earthtone windbreaker and wore casual slacks. I remember exactly what he looked like too.
Someone I recently spoke to referred to my account of this event as a conspiracy theory. I was taken aback by the words “conspiracy theory” for 2 reasons. First of all this is not a theory, my account is an eyewitness account of what actually happened. David F. Cram and Michael J. Rossi did kidnap many many people, murder them and throw them into the lake at Deep Quarry during the late 70’s. There are no doubts about it. Other than occasionally driving them there, they did this without John Wayne Gacys help or presence. Secondly conspiracies are pre-planned events of a negative nature. What happened in 1979-1980 was not a conspiracy but an unfortunate series of events that went seriously awry during an era of lax criminal enforcement loopholes.
NOT AN ACCOMPLICE THEORY: One of the pitfalls of having so many posts in lieu of a finished product is the confusion factor that I have instilled upon this disclosure of events. For some reason some people are also calling this an “accomplice theory”. As I stated directly above in a Sept 10, 2012 post, this is not a theory, but an actual eyewitness account that became apparent once I delved into the suspicious behavior of Gacys friends at the quarry. It is not MY FAULT OR THE PUBLICS FAULT that the police skipped this step of the murder investigation. Let’s call it like it is, from my viewpoint, it appears as if the 1979 police skipped ALL the steps through legal loopholes I would hope. As for Cram and Rossi being accomplices, that was NOT the case. Cram and Rossi mass murdered on their own for several years completely without Gacy s’ help. In every scenario that I recently artworked and uploaded onto imageshack where I witnessed these events, Gacy was not there and Cram and Rossi were murdering on their own. They were not accomplices in any of the events I witnessed. I need the police to really dwell on this and not disregard this fact.
Continued from above;Thus far this is not a conspiracy however the 2012 police can certainly make it one if top brass decides to pretend that this never happened, thereby dragging themselves back down to the corruption days of the 70’s. I do not believe that this will happen, however if that is the way top brass wants it, then they can kiss their legacies goodbye, because someone, somewhere, someday, will pick this event apart and dissect it into whatever ugly spectacle they feel the event deserves. Political enemies are usually very good at things like that, even if it is simply to fan the flames of political party hatred. As for what happened 33 years ago, I personally understand and have reached full police compassion for the unfortunate events that transpired. I have no ill feelings towards the police or politicians about what happened however I will not understand if the blue code of silence is to be senselessly used on this matter. The time to set the record straight is now. Common sense dictates that the time to put mass murderers David F. Cram and Michael J. Rossi away is now.
I have asked the police multiple times to unhide their secret records of the mass murders at Deep Quarry. But they never respond. So therefore I now publicly ask former Sheriff of Dupage County Richard Doria, Former Sheriff of Cook County Richard Elrod, and former Governor of Illinois James Thompson to please consider how many lives were ruined by the mass murders by Michael J. Rossi and David F. Cram. Nobody gives a hoot about 33 year old events made through loopholes except the police who, thus far, seem duty bound to hide this any way they can. I know it happened. You all know it happened. There are probably others that saw the same things I did. You 3 guys had enormous power at that time. You must be able to pull some strings now with your old buddies to unhide what happened in order to get Michael J. Rossi put away. Sheriff John Zaruba, you are a great actor but please consider a little more humanity in your life regarding the lives that were ruined and the potential for Mr. Rossi’s future victims. Sheriff Tom Dart, you have enormous resources and clout, it would be an insult to justice, and a victory for hardened criminals if you do not investigate him. Please, all of you, go get Rossi and put him away, for any reason that you can, his record is a mile long.
I cannot stress this enough: The Michael J. Rossi of New York that I identified on the internet is at 99% CERTAINTY however I cannot state 100% until he is proven to be Gacys friend and employee. I remember him very very well from at least a dozen encounters in that quarry. The NY guy has the same posture, apparent height, face, eyes, complexion, hair color, sexual orientation and is the correct age as the guy I did my best to avoid in that quarry but 33 years have gone by since I last saw him hiking up to the hidden hollow with Cram. It was said that one guy from the Gacy trial was last known to be heading east. This NY Rossi has a Michigan connection in the same area that Gacy often worked in during the 70’s. I found this NY Rossi by searching names and photos on the internet from an internet lineup of guys named Michael Rossi. There are many internet stories by angry NY and Michigan people of this Rossi pedophile whose history of exploits parallels some of Gacys traits. There are enough overwhelming reasons to seriously check this guy out as the murderer I saw in that quarry and the abductor of many people who wound up dead at the bottom of that quarry lake weighed down with stones that he and Cram would carry onto the ledge or the hidden hollow.
In regards to the record of charges I mention above regarding the Michael J. Rossi of NY whose identity I am 99% certain about; I am referring to the long history and record of charges from people who are disgusted with his pedophile ways. I am unsure of his actual criminal record. This man is an escape artist. There comes a point when the sheer quantity of suspicion begins to grow and overwhelm the official end results. Our government is really showing its flaws both past and present with this guy. But first it needs to be determined if this is actually the guy who worked with Gacy or someone who physical looks and lifepath are almost identical. So far the government is protecting him by doing absolutely nothing or so I was told. He may very well be the most highly protected mass murderer ever in history, or in the least the most highly protected mass murderer suspect ever in history, which defies all logic, if it is him. Somebody told me recently that Rossi is somewhere else.I find this unlikely but it does bring up a very good point. Why should I as a citizen resort to finding mass murdering friends of Gacy’s on my own? This does not bode well when a citizen has to find his own suspects and perpetrators. It feels like a precursor to an ominous do nothing ending.
I am 100% positive that mass murdering thug#2 looks EXACTLY like the accused NY / MI pedophile. My 99% claim comes about if there is another man with the same exact face, profile, posture, age, apparent height, sexual orientation, hair color and complexion as this guy. This exact human duplicates name would also most likely have to be Michael J. Rossi as he was a daily companion to David F. Cram and occasionally John Wayne Gacy at what is now known as Deep Quarry.
2 Corrections:
1) Mr. Rossi probably did NOT work in Michigan for several years as I previously stated, I was wrong. I confused similar high school names and their towns. His internet trail of pedophilia goes back to the 80’s and seems be confined to New York and is quite damaging in character. From my observations in that Quarry during the late 70’s, Michael J. Rossi was homosexual. I had reported the perceived homosexuality of both thugs to the police before I ever found Mr. Rossi on the internet.
2) Contrary to what I previously thought for many months, I also recently remembered that I DID tell a policeman about the incidents that occurred back then. It was 1980 or 1981 when I talked to the officer. This man was a high ranking deputy (not Elrod himself though) who was driving one of Richard Elrod’s personal cars. He was in a dark blue 1976 or 1977 Eldorado with license plates that read ELROD or something close to that. He was at an apartment building near Army Trail Road and Swift Road so I seized the opportunity. He listened to my Gacy story and then quickly dismissed it. I could figure out exactly who he was if need be.
TO THE DISBELIEVERS;
Read between the lines on that Oct 20th post and you will see the reason why I panicked when I first released this story to the internet, why I am still nervous now and one of the main reasons why I posted so often. My family thought that I would disappear, be shot by a lunatic or be hauled off to jail on trumped up charges. It presents a dangerous and delicate situation when a government group orders other government groups to not lift a single finger to investigate one of the most prolific mass murderers of all time simply to keep hiding the embarrassment of their own actions. Everyone makes mistakes but not everyone wants to readily admit to their mistakes.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/594/rossicramgacythugmap.png/
New updated thug map showing names and murdering activities of David F. Cram, Michael J. Rossi and John Wayne Gacy at Deep Quarry in Dupage County in the late 70’s.
If you call the police about this story beware of the canned statement “THERE ARE NO REPORTS” by the police, this is a canned statement with double meaning potential. Look out for any deceptive canned statements that may have multiple meanings. I hate to say this but in 2-1/2 years I am still waiting for the first honest words from these guys regarding any of my encounters and they were all doozies. The green light was given back in 1979 to dupe the public and this has set an unfortunate precedence that is still continuing today.
The following sentences were taken from the article linked below.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/10683881-418/women-tell-of-links-between-gacy-friend-and-victim.html
1> The roommate later told prosecutors he had lived with Gacy for months, worked for Gacy and even dug a trench in his crawlspace.
2> “Then [the roommate] said he goes to one area where there’s a lot of dead bodies and the police don’t even know about it,” the girlfriend said.
3> The women, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said they reported the roommate’s odd statements to Chicago police after Mowery’s body was identified, but authorities never followed up. <end
Deep Quarry in Dupage is certainly where Cram and Rossi were hanging out for years; it is certainly a place where there were dead bodies all over as mentioned above by the woman who had obviously met Cram and/or Rossi.. The 1970’s Deep Quarry mass murders in Dupage County did happen and 2 of the worst mass murderers in history David F. Cram and Michael J. Rossi were in the middle of it and are still free. Please read the entire http://www.suntimes.com article linked above, and please look at all the artwork links I listed in previous postings because my entries are not in order.
I can tell by the inactivity of my imageshack links that very few people are reading any of this. This isn’t working as fast as I was hoping it would. All I can figure is that the unbelievability factor is off the charts and into uncharted territory unobtainable in any other state except Illinois. I may need a new plan.
none – you should write to me and tell me more. tracy@norwesterproductions.com I’m reading you loud and clear.
Hi Tracy, I want to describe the incident where Gacy had first chased me on my bike. This was the incident that made me distrust Gacy and his friends from then on (until the day I wound up in his car a few years later that is) I was probably about 14-15. I pedaled from my house and was going over to the quarry on a nice summerlike day. I was on my bike heading south on Gerber Road on the far left side of the lonely rural road when Gacy drove his car on the wrong side of the road and very slowly drove alongside me on my bike. He nearly hit me. The car appeared to have one lone occupant that I had a good look at when he drove by. Our faces were only about 4 to 5 feet apart, he is in beater car and me on my bike struggling to get over onto the shoulder of the road to avoid from being hit. He stared at me when he drove slowly by. It was a heavy slob-like Gacy. He was an unknown at the time of course and I had never seen him before. I slowed down and went to the shoulder because he missed me by only a couple of feet. I first thought that the driver was drunk or something. I stopped my bike and stared at his car frightened, wondering who this guy was and what was he doing. He was driving a beater rusty faded light colored green mid 60’s Oldsmobile station wagon: maybe a Delta 98 or 88 with one almost white quarter panel. He then drove very slowly forward about 50 feet past me and stopped his car. I stopped my bike and did not move because he was making me nervous. I became slightly afraid and did not know which way to go. I thought about going back but the road had no close houses in that direction and no place to run to. I was about 200 yards from the first house on Gerber road so I stayed put. I figured I could run on foot if I had to. I think there were only 3 houses on Gerber back then. After about a minute, he took off again and pulled a few feet into the second driveway from me. This made me wonder if perhaps he lived there which prevented me from going up to the houses for possible protection. I did not move and just sat there on my bike frightened. Gacy remained parked in that driveway for about a half minute and then pulled out, backed out onto Gerber Road, continued south and went to the end of the road, (T-intersection) turned left and then parked his car near the old quarry entrance across from Gerber road on Army Trail Road. This is the area I identified as “OPTIONAL THUG PARKING” on my thugmaps of the quarry. Not yet knowing that he had parked his car there, I decided to then proceed to the quarry as planned. I rode up to the end of the road (T-intersection) and then I saw his car parked semi hidden about 150 yards east of the entrance. I turned around because that car being there had me concerned. There were only about 3 houses on Gerber road at that time. I then decided not to go to the quarry as he had frightened me off. I then went back onto Gerber road and headed north to go back towards home. I went over to one of the driveways on Gerber and stayed at the bottom of the driveway for about 10 minutes. I knew I couldn’t stay there because it was not my house and I was a stranger in their driveway. Plus I wondered if the creepy slob in the green Olds station wagon that nearly hit me lived next door. I was torn between being frightened by the guy in the car and wondering if I was over-reacting. I then took off and headed north on Gerber to return to downtown Bartlett. When I was only about a half-minute from the driveway I had stopped at, Gacy’s car returned and zoomed wide past me at about 50mph and kept going. He turned left onto Shick Rd. and zoomed away. I thought I was OK then so I kept going north on Gerber. When I got back onto Shick Road a few minutes later, I turned left and was heading west towards Bartlett Road, I saw that the green Olds was coming back around and was going to drive past me again very slowly, but before Gacy’s eastbound car got to where I was, I got lucky and managed to stop the only other car I had seen in a long time by waving to 2 elderly people in a slow moving westbound car, a new looking Caddy. Gacy had his window down and again I had a good long slow look at him. He glared at me when he drove by very slowly from about 15 feet away, looking like he wanted to talk. But I looked away and told the 2 people in the car that I stopped (an elderly couple) what was going on. I asked the people in the car if they knew him and the elderly man turned and looked at Gacy in the passing car and said no. Gacys car kept going very slowly past us and I did not see him after that. I was lucky the elderly couple was driving down that desolate road, because the closest house was at the driveway I was just at, a half mile away. I then stopped at my friend’s farmhouse on Bartlett Rd. and asked them if they knew who this guy was by describing the car and the driver and my friend said no.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/560/firstencounterapprox197.png/
this is artwork which shows the situation described in my 1-7-13 post.
I just found out from someone that David F. Cram died in a forest preserve in 2001. Thank You to the person who informed me. I also realized that many of the imageshack viewcounters keep resetting back to lower numbers therefore I am back to having no idea how many people are looking at any of these postings of mine.
Two things would result in counters resetting. One is if you add or change something, or someone else did.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/213/davidfcram.jpg/
Attached is a link to a photo of David F. Cram, this is the guy who typically was at position D and G on my map (ref posted 9-27-12 and 8-9-12). I remember this guy very well from at least a dozen encounters.
This original post did not pass moderation so I will repost it with slight changes and hope that it goes through this time.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/10683881-418/women-tell-of-links-between-gacy-friend-and-victim.html
On the above link please read the Feb 2012 story by Frank Main of the Sun Times. At the time that the article was written it was still 5 months away from figuring out the confidential mass murder cleanup at Deep Quarry. The place that is described in the article must be Deep Quarry and the roommate must be Cram or Rossi. The trumpet was sounded and what started off as a heralded new investigation 8 months ago has now taken on the sounds of shifted silence. What squashed the trumpet?
At the time that the article was written it was still 5 months away should read “At the time that the article was written I was still 5 months away…” TYPO
The government has yanked the story mentioned above that exposed too much coverup. The criminal pretend cops known as sheriffs (politicians) have too much clout in this country. Nice job on corruption done right Politician Tom Dart and Politician John Zaruba. Neither of which are real cops but they are making all cops look bad by continuing to LIE AND PROTECT THEIR POLITICAL BUDDIES.
I found out from a New York website that New York will not investigate the pedophile Michael J. Rossi as being a mass murderer at Deep Quarry. They will not even investigate him as being a pedophile despite a mile long record of charges. This is an important victory for criminals everywhere. In some areas, the long arm of the law is slowly turning into the giant middle finger of the law aimed at honest folks, accountable to absolutely nobody, except its omnipotent self. In some areas, the cornerstones of the law are crumbling exposing the giant nameless faceless cockroaches who hide inside and give orders of ultimate stupidity. What America needs right now is one policeman, one lawyer and one judge who will buck this archaic system and go get Rossi. How long must this giant middle finger be poked into the souls of the honest?
Hello none I’m a little interested I’m your story I coincidentally ran into john wayne gacy’s biography today and started to read it and it just kept getting interesting so ended up reading the whole thing, but first and foremost I strongly agree with you that Michael Rossi and David Cram are the two who assisted in the murders. I do believe they killed on their own also and believe that they had gay sexual spiritual demonic religious acts that they did while torturing the victims to their death for some odd reason as soon as I got done reading mr gacy’s bio and it mentioned he could of had accomplices I noticed right away them two same dressing act alike individuals whom you and I both gave previously named above had something to do with it mr gacy had to keep them alive for a reason they were his students he was there teacher he needed them to carry on his legacy (religious acts) and he took the blame for them and himself. I’m not sure if you actually grew up seeing them in quarry as you mentioned but I think Michael Rossi did steal cars cause as I read in bio mr gacy invited one of his employees over to buy his Plymouth satellite and ended up killing him and selling the vehicle to Michael Rossi I think Rossi killed him cause he wanted the car and mr gacy took full blame it did mention Michael Rossi got pulled over in it for stealing gas and they ran the vin and came back to missing victim and he said he bought it off mr gacy the reason he stole gas was to leave town what did he need to leave town for you see there are I believe 6 body’s that are still inidentified correct me if wrong that was under crawl space I believe Michael and David killed out of state and drove bodies back in trunk with victims possibly dead or alive and buried them under crawl space and I believe some times those two individuals would do the killings and mr gacy had sexual relations with the corpse also it does say David Cram commited suicide in woods in 2001 I find that hard to believe I think it was either stage for fake death or there was a cult or victims families got revenge and what was also strange is that his son was 10 at the time whom I looked up also has facebook commited suicide 8 years after in 2009 I think that was the cult or victim family getting revenge again to stop David Crams bloodline this was so interesting to me and how I put it all together and then found you who agrees with some things but probably know more than I do but that’s what I think you know it all makes sense.think about it and research it thanks
I can assure you all that David F. Cram is deceased. I was at his funeral and saw his corpse with my own eyes (his widow is a family friend). He hung himself in La Bagh woods after a long bout with depression, alcoholism, domestic turmoil, and drug abuse. And after knowing the man and the problems in his life (and the demons he must have carried with him), his suicide was not entirely surprising. Tragically and ironically in 2009, his son David IV (at age 18), also took his own life. I do not offer any opinion as to what events transpired in the late 70’s but I can assure all of you who may be concerned about David F. Cram still lurking out there, he is dead and gone.
Bet you didnt know that around 71 or 72, been so long, that Gacy was in NY
There are certainly some interesting hypothesis in that post Mr. or Ms. “N.A Right Now”. I am not a researcher at all in anything John Wayne Gacy related unless it helps to bring back my memories. The account that I have given is simply a product of being an actual eyewitness coupled with only enough research to verify the identities of those 2 young men, who turned out to be Cram and Rossi. I assure you that Michael J. Rossi and David F. Cram did mass murder, on their own, at what is now known as Deep Quarry in Dupage County, IL. I assure you that this mass murder site was cleaned up and kept confidential, the details of which may never be known. I can’t say I researched the cleanup to any degree, the results of my light research into this 1979-1980 cleanup practically fell into my lap, as it can for others. There are no doubts about either of these events. I fear slightly the wrongful accusations of slander however I do have truth and honesty on my side whereas others have a complex matrix which requires the rehearsals of many. Rossi would be a fool to pursue the path of slander. His only hope is relentless hiding and denial, wherever he is. As for the police, I am at the mercy of lawyers, judges and lawmen who can railroad me if they choose to, and do so until the cows come home. I personally don’t think it is a good idea to make a fabricated public example out of a witness, but you never know.
In all walks of life, we are made accountable for our mistakes. This is pounded into our thought process when we are young. This is one of the harsher realities of how we learn. The Blue Code of Silence by which some government employees abide can sometimes contradict and completely nullify this basic human learning requirement and falsely elevate those who incorrectly use it to a false status of perfection, when in reality no human is perfect. The 33 year old cleanup made through possible loopholes is probably a mute point, made mute by the march of time. Putting Rossi away and whoever else is mixed up in this is what I am now hoping for. I am a witness in waiting, waiting for the truth to prevail. If I am wearing Pollyanna rose colored glasses so be it. A good dose of optimism will quench the angry soul.
http://imageshack.us/f/802/gacystrunk1975.png/
This is artwork showing exactly what Gacys trunk looked like about 1975 in what I think was an Olds 88 approx 1965 model freshly painted black. There were implements, poles, rope and what I think were pool floats, along with some other stuff. Gacy stopped me from walking up and looking inside the trunk after I accepted a ride from him to go to a campsite in another town. The bars (thugclub/ramrod) inside his trunk were similar to the clubs that Cram and Rossi were always running around with on the path of death. I saw Gacy driving Cram and Rossi (and one other) there from time to time. There is more on these thugclubs above in other posts and how I unknowingly took one from Cram and Rossi. One of them chased me to get it back but I was too far ahead and took off in my car. The authorities now have the thugclub.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/thugclubandramrod1.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/thugclubandramrod2.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/225/davidfcramandmichaeljro.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/davidfcrampointingatmea.png/
To clarify the descriptions of the 2 imageshack links. The first image /225/ was what I saw when I first entered the path of death. Cram would be pretending to fish with either his fake pole (thugclub) or sometimes he used a real fishing pole. He would be at the position “D” as shown on my thugmap. Rossi would always be at the other end of the creek pretending to fish with his thugclub which was position “E” on my 2 thugmaps. At the time I thought the thugclubs were short fat fishing poles. I encountered Cram and Rossi many times in this same configuration, always staring at me. Usually I turned around right there because I did not like those guys because they were friends with Gacy. The second image /885/ was what I saw after I started to walk southbound down the path one day. As usual, they were both staring at me as I entered the path. I looked back when I was halfway between Cram and Rossi. I saw that Cram had his pole pointed straight at me. I then saw Rossi walking up the hill towards the path I was on. He was hidden in the trees but I saw him anyway. I turned around then. There is more on this event in my Aug 16th 2012 post. An interesting note that particular day; when I first arrived that day in my car, one of the thugs was standing about 50 yards south of the parking lot, mostly hidden by the shrubs. He was looking towards the parking lot like he was waiting for someone. When he saw me enter the main path on foot after parking my car he then took off and went to his fake fishing spot. This was the day that they went after me on the path of death as mentioned above and in my Aug 16th post. This was a few weeks or months after I had accidently taken one of their thugclubs.
This is a map showing the above situation;
http://imageshack.us/edit.php?url%5B%5D=703/7586/967956936/quarryrossicramgacythug.png/y
This map is easier to access than the map above.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/quarryrossicramgacythug.png/
I have no idea what the police are doing, therefore I need to give this at least 1 year before I progress to a more aggressive approach. I will occasionally issue more artwork to this website and to imageshack though.
WHO IS CALLING THE SHOTS?
In 1979 the Cook County police cordially invited the media to attend the excavation at Gacy’s home on Summerdale Ave thus showing the media and the public how willing the government was to show us every step of the way in their investigation, thus proving their honesty to the media and the public by showing them everything; while Dupage County remained silent.
Fast forward to 2012; Cook County is now showing the media and the public how willing the government is to show us every step of the way in this new Gacy investigation with constant reports, thus proving their honesty to the media and the public by showing them everything; while Dupage County remains silent.
Sound familiar, it should because it’s 1979 style duping, decoying and deception tactics; I contend that somebody(s) is telling the police what to do. Politicians created this mess by telling the police what to do in 1979 and politicians continue this mess by telling the police what to do in 2012, in both cases to avoid bad publicity I assume. I agree that Sheriff Tom Dart and Sheriff John Zaruba were dealt a wickedly bad hand by their predecessors. Governmental silence controls the front door of the media in this Cram Rossi Gacy matter, for the major media cannot report anything that the government hides. Thus far this is working quite well for somebody, whoever that is, but that’s not what the police took their oaths for. Politicians are almost expected to disregard their oaths, but the police are not. When mass murderers walk free then it is time for a separation of police and politicians.
Here is my rough draft for a petition:
PERMANENT LEGAL SEPARATION OF POLICE AND POLITICIANS PART 1 (rough draft)
We the undersigned, wish to change the laws in Illinois to make it a federal crime for any elected official to mandate investigative directives, or to influence in any manner any police organization during any investigation.
Exclusions; Governor, Judges, States Attorneys, County Sheriffs.
The main reason for this petition will be to remove individuals with limited law enforcement expertise from the law enforcement branch and to remove conflicts of personal interest.
Free legal advice and help is always welcome.
PERMANENT LEGAL SEPARATION OF POLICE AND POLITICIANS PART 2 (rough draft)
We the undersigned, wish to change the laws of the United States of America to make it a federal crime for any elected official to mandate the non-investigation of a felony crime.
Exclusions; none.
The main reason for this petition will be to provide a documentation trail for future discovery and to remove conflicts of personal interest.
Free legal advice and help is always welcome.
http://imageshack.us/f/202/rossicramtryvicskey.jpg/
Here is artwork showing when I caught Cram (standing) and Rossi trying a victim’s key in my ignition. Rossi stood up and put the keys in his pocket which then caused me to check my own pockets to see if I left my keys in the car. They stood and laughed at me. I just laughed back at them and smiled. Then Rossi did an air whacking maneuver near my head like he was hitting me with a pole. They kept laughing the whole time. I got in my car. Rossi was then quickly looking up and down Army Trail road and then started to come back towards my car but I got out of there just in the nick of time before he got too close. Cram just sat on a big rock laughing the whole time. Gacy was nowhere around, it was just those 2 cold blooded killers killing people and stealing their cars, business as usual to those idiots.
I am faced with one paradox and one hypocrisy;
1) My hypocrisy; The same organization (the police) that I am asking to keep my identity a secret forever is also the same organization that I am accusing of investigative oversight in 1979. I need to stop punching people in the nose.
2) My paradox; By keeping the first suspicious place that Gacy took me to a secret, I am now doing one of the things that the police did in 1979 which is keeping secrets. These secrets could block other trails.
In light of these 2 predicaments, I have backed down on my criticism of the situation and will wait at least one year before the next major step.
THIS POST BELOW IS ONLY ABOUT GACY AND NOT CRAM OR ROSSI.
Shown below is a modified excerpt from one of my Gacy reports which I had sent to the police 6-25-2010. At that time I had just recently started back up with recalling the events of the late 70’s and was still in the process of clarifying my old memories. Described below is the previously mentioned location that Gacy that taken me to. This was the place that I cannot disclose the name of due to that fact that the property is privately owned and children are often there therefore it would be wrong of me to disclose this area. The police statement given to me after my initial report was “there were no reports”. This vague statement with double meaning potential was when I first started getting suspicious of a secret cleanup at all Gacy sites. It is my personal opinion that there were indicators in this event that lead me to believe that the area described below may have been covertly cleaned up. I give it a very good chance that something happened there based upon the fact that this was a place where Gacy told me he often took people to, it was abandoned for many years, the abandoned building where he took me to stunk very badly, it was a place that he was very familiar with, it was also a place where he told me that he spent a great deal of time at. The police absolutely cleaned up Deep Quarry which leads me to believe that they cleaned up other areas as well and perhaps this place as well. This event coincided at the same period of time that Cram and Rossi were always hanging out on the “path of death” at Deep Quarry. This separate event shows us that Cram, Gacy, Rossi, and potentially others had their own agendas and their own special spots, although I occasionally seen them all together at the quarry. I am purposely leaving some of the information in this event out.
START;
During the warm seasons of what I believe is about 1974 or 75, I had pedaled my 10 speed bike from my home to the quarry now known as Deep Quarry in rural Dupage County. I stopped at a foundation of an old torn down barn on Shick road. There were no homes on Shick Road from the Mallard Lake area to Route 59 at that time. The barn foundation was on the south side of the road. I was about 70 yards away from the road, on the west side of the barn foundation. I was about 20 feet from the west wall of the foundation. It was the afternoon. This barn foundation was only 1/4 mile away from the quarry on the gravel portion of Shick road.
(I art worked and drew a map of this pickup point on an earlier posting.)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/560/firstencounterapprox197.png/
After a few minutes I noticed a large low 2 door shiny black hardtop car with a dark haired man looking at me. The man stared at me for a few minutes. My first reaction was that I was in trouble for being on someone’s property so I went back to looking at the foundation and moved further from the road and closer to the wall, but still on the west side of the foundation, to get out of the view from the man in the car. After a minute or 2 the car drove up to where I was standing with my bike. He parked to the north of me by about 25 feet and quite close to the building. It was a car with a very sleek roofline and large long tall windows, the windows were all open. It was a large expensive car, very airy, in excellent condition, pure black, very shiny and flawless. I have looked at pictures a little bit to help locate the model. I think it was about a 1965 Delta 88. It may have actually been one of the same cars he had earlier except it was painted and the rust was removed.
Gacy was much thinner this time and I did not recognize him at first as the man from the previous incidents, he also had his rusty Oldsmobile painted shiny gloss black or else it was a different car, he was wearing nicer clothes, he was clean shaven, and he was not aggressive. The man got out of his car. He was about 5-10 and weighed about 230 pounds. He was not the really heavy guy I had seen 2 years earlier, he was a cleaner, thinner looking Gacy, he was only a little chubby. He had on nice clothes and he wore black pants with a belt. He had on a dark nylon windbreaker. He had on light colored sunglasses that made him look like he was wearing regular glasses at first. But then I realized they were light sunglasses, I am fairly certain they were rose colored. He walked behind his car and stopped close to it. He kept his hands in his windbreaker pockets from the time he got out of the car until he talked me into getting into his car. He kept arching up on his shoes every 20 seconds or so, and pushing his hands into his jacket while I was looking at him and talking to him.
He asked me what I was doing. I told him I was looking at the foundation of the barn. He asked me “exactly what part of the foundation are you looking at that interests you so much”. I answered by pointing at the foundation and pointing out a few things and I spoke a sentence or two. I remember thinking I was in trouble for being there. When I first started talking he was standing perhaps 20 feet away from me. Standing there, hands in his pockets, arching up on his shoes. Not looking at me, but looking at the foundation too. After I looked away from him and I started to point out a few things, I looked back at him and he was standing right behind me about 3 feet away and slightly to my left. He was clearly in my personal zone and he got there real quick and real silently in the short time it took me to speak and point. I first thought I saw him in the corner of my eye moving toward me at a pretty good speed, his quick motion was like a blur. By the time my head was completely turned around, he was standing there, wobbling from the momentum of his quick stop. He had both hands in his windbreaker pockets, staring straight ahead in a blank stare, not once making eye contact with me. I had a very good close-up look at him, and I remember it well. It was almost like I stopped him with the motion of turning my head around to look at him. I never had great eyes and I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me. I got nervous and said bye, I pushed off on my bike and started to ride off.
He said “You don’t have to leave, I’m not going to hurt you, I just like to talk to people, I like to hear about the things they like to do”….he called himself a real friendly person that loves to talk to all kinds of people. I can’t remember verbatim what he said after that, but I did stop, and I did talk to him, he was easy going. He explained that he was in charge (and a counselor) of a local organization for some religious group. He said he was on his way over there to do some work on the place, he used the word “we” when talking about the work that was going on, leading me to believe that there were others there working with him. He said that he would drive me over there so that I could meet lots of kids my own age, and that it would be a lot more fun than just riding around on my bike like I was doing. We walked around a little bit (but never far from his car) and he talked me into going with him. He somehow befriended me and talked me into getting into his car. Like a big idiot I agreed to go with him. I walked back to get my bike. As I was pushing my bike towards his car I saw him doing something in the trunk, he was pushing a large object as far forward as he could to the space under the rear window. His hands were about a foot apart while he was pushing forward. I was on the passenger side of the car about 15 feet away when he was doing this. He motioned with his hands for me to stop coming forward, and asked me to leave the bike there (about 6 feet from the car) and asked me to go wait up by the front of the car. What I briefly saw in the trunk from my vantage point was; on the far left side of the trunk (drivers side), running front to back were a small pile of tubular (or round bodied) objects, I could not see the heads on them because the heads were too far forward in the trunk, some could easily have been garden tools, and some looked like galvanized poles or heavy pipes. Some looked well used but some of the pipes looked newer. The pipes were too small to be fencing and too heavy looking and short to be for a tent. The pipes looked to be all about the same diameter and length. (I have since art worked the trunk, see above for the link)
http://imageshack.us/f/802/gacystrunk1975.png/
The pipes were silver colored and about 1” in diameter. All items were at least 2.5 feet long. Most had a light smattering of what looked like mortar or concrete dust. I could only see half the trunk from my brief vantage point. (I have since realized that I had one of these poles in my possession, which I accidently took from Cram and Rossi at the quarry in ‘76 or ’77. I have since sent the rod to the authorities.) Please see my previous postings regarding these thugclubs.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/thugclubandramrod1.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/thugclubandramrod2.jpg/
On top of the tubular objects was about 20-40 feet of beige rope, about 5/16 diameter looped in a large oval, draped across the tubular objects and also draping across the floor of the trunk. Next to the pile of tubular objects and sitting on top of the rope, were 2 more objects, running front to back in line with each other. Each one was about 10-12 inches long, 4 inches wide, mostly round, plastic, and had tapered ends which I now realize were dirty white pool floats.
After he motioned for me to stop, he asked me to go up to the front of the car so I turned around and did what he asked. Realizing the guy did not want me to see what was in his trunk; I waited up by the front of the car for about 2 minutes. He was standing straight up doing something with his hands. He was partly hidden behind the upright trunk lid so I could not see exactly what he was doing. He never did try to put my bike in the trunk. He finally closed the trunk. He kept pushing something forward in his left pocket as he was closing the trunk. Every pocket shove he would do with a blank stare facing forward, never once looking at me when he did it. After he closed the trunk lid and did one of his blank stare left pocket thrusts, he looked at me standing by the passenger door and did a quick little half-smile, and then he looked to his left and did a twice as long squinty eyed smile to himself. I turned away for a few seconds thinking that this guy looked like a grinning jackass. When I looked back, the driver’s door was open and he was standing by my bike, looking towards it, putting on a pair of extremely tight fitting little gloves, fighting to get them on with his right hand pointed straight up flexing his fingers like a doctor putting on surgical gloves. He then rolled my bike over to the driver’s side and put the bike in the back seat. After he put my bike in the back seat he walked around the car, continuing to do his left hand pocket thrusts pushing something forward each time in his pocket. He opened the passenger door for me and I got in. I noticed that the door handle was missing on the door. He commented on it when he saw me staring at the missing item. I felt a little uneasy but somehow he smoothed me over explaining he was working on the car earlier. I felt at ease because the windows were all open at that particular moment when I first got in. The inside doors were black. The inside door covering had a fake leather look with pressed seams running parallel spaced every inch or so. There was large metal logo writing on the dashboard in front of me that I think was an 88 logo.
As we were pulling onto the graveled Shick road, I told Gacy he had a nice car, and I believe his response was “this is my (forgotten male relation) car; usually his (forgotten female relation) drives it.” I cannot remember what the relationships were. Now I think he was lying anyway because I think that maybe it was the same car he was driving earlier, only painted.
He had a rolled joint propped up sitting in his ashtray, like it was on display. I thought that was a really brave and stupid thing to do. Eventually he smoked that joint. He told me to help myself to any of the many previously smoked half joint butts in his ashtray, which I did not do. It was at this point I believe he rolled up all the windows. He smoked the joint, leaning out the window and blowing smoke out from time to time.
As we went down the road he told me he had “a half of a sandwich” left in his “lunchbox” and offered it to me. I glanced around the vehicle but did not see a lunchbox. Then he asked me if I knew of a place to eat around there. It struck me as curious as to how he could work in this area but did not know the local places to eat. Yet it did not click danger to me. I told him, “not around here” and then I explained I did not live in the nearby area and then I told him where I lived.
Gacy then asked me “Do you ever shoot balloons?” It was a strange question so I paused for a while and then answered by telling him that I had thrown darts at balloons.” Then Gacy said something similar to “When we get there we’ll shoot some balloons and shoot some plates too. We tie them to boards and all kinds of things and shoot at them. It’s a lot of fun.” He then said something that inferred the use of an air gun of some sort and this would happen down at the lake and there would be balloons and plates all over the place. I envisioned quite a few kids doing this in my mental image due to what he said. I thought he was a little different, but he seemed friendly enough. I had never met a religious counselor before. I had only met priests. This guy had me completely fooled.
He drove a little while more into another town and whipped right into the driveway of a place that looked remote, and I mean he “whipped in”. As soon as he did this, he immediately started to reach to his right to grab something next to him near the seat, but then he stopped suddenly when something caught his eye. Suddenly he was startled to see people, lots of people up by a house, walking all over the place. He said “Why are these people here?” “What are they doing here?” He repeated himself a few times, almost mumbling with each repeat. He was clearly upset and agitated. He could have turned around and drove me somewhere else to kill me but he didn’t. He was clearly interested in getting up to the house.
It was at that moment that I became slightly nervous again, I felt trapped in his car with the missing handle. I was confused because he told me he was taking me to meet kids my own age. I thought he would be happy that so many people were there. He was not acting religious at all. He was angry but then he calmed down and once again smoothed me over with pleasantness. I felt more at ease when he kept driving towards the house. Then I started to think that he was just an upset boss. By the time we got to the house I was actually feeling stupid for being frightened. What a relief when he stopped the car in front of the house and in front of a lot of people.
The drive from the road to the house was a long and isolated distance. The house was not visible from the street. There were a lot of people there. He parked right in front of everyone else right next to the house. When he first got out of the car, he removed his jacket. He did this slowly and carefully facing the car with his door open. He leaned far to the left when taking it off. He practically hit his head on the door when leaning so far left. He did not want whatever was in his left pocket to be disturbed or even seen because he was so close to the door. He must have put the jacket in the trunk while I was sitting there waiting for him to open my door (because of the missing door handle). By the time he came around the car to open the door for me, the jacket was gone. He then held the door and the front seat open all the way and instructed me to get the bike out of the backseat. I went in and grabbed the bike myself while he stood there just staring at the house. Never once did his bare hands ever touch my bike. The whole time he got out and was holding the door for me, he kept looking up at the house repeatedly while doing all this.
We walked into the house together. I remember that house smelling very musty and odiferous when I walked in, but it was vacant for awhile, I suppose it could have been anything. The door was propped open and I remember the smell hitting me right at the door. In my opinion it was the same sick smell as an old low budget funeral home. But I suppose it could have been dead rats or animals too, although the smell was slightly different.
After we walked in, I kept waiting for people to run up to him. I kept waiting for him to go to his office or to talk to other people who worked there. But nobody came up to him and nobody talked to him. He did not go into another room or anything. He just walked around like me, looking at the pamphlets and brochures of local businesses and religious organizations that were on the tables. There was a big event going on, like a company picnic or church picnic of some sort. Despite a room full of people nobody ever approached him, and he did not approach anyone else either. We were there for about 10-15 minutes looking at all the pamphlets. I kept looking at him and started to wonder if perhaps this guy was a phony. People were coming and going and there were always between 4 and 10 people in that room.
After walking around the room looking at brochures, Gacy stayed at one end of the room looking forward down a hallway with a closed door. He looked many times to his left. Sometimes he would bob his head in an effort to see better when he was turning his head left. He stayed at that end of the room for about 10 minutes. He was clearly interested in what was on the other side of the closed doors in the room, as well as what was outside on one side of the house, which I believe was a small lake or pond, but I am not 100% certain that it was the water he was looking at. He did sway back and forth in the general area as shown in the map. He did look at new people walking through the front door as well. Most of the time when new people walked in, he would look at them and then look down, half-spin around and then go back to his staring straight ahead for a little while. At no time while we were there did anyone walk through the closed doors in the room.
Eventually he grabbed a brochure and signed the inside. And then instead of signing his name he used his first 2 initials and then his last name. After he signed the brochure, he said he had things to do and walked away and went down by the lake. He had on a light colored short sleeved polo style shirt tucked in with a belt on. He was nicely dressed. He did not talk to anyone except me the entire time I was there.
He wrote what you see in the attachment “call me”, plus he signed his name in fairly neat capital printed block letters (J.W.GACY) with periods included. After he signed the brochure he dismissed me and told me to call him sometime. I last saw him walking quickly and heading down toward the water by himself. I hopped on my bike and got out of there originally thinking the guy was a phony although I must have given him the benefit of the doubt because I returned there later that week in a car with my friend; however Gacy’s car was not there, and the place was void of people. My friend went over there later that week and nobody was there.
Your extremely lucky. I have the feeling he knew you from the quarry and had planned to as the old saying goes, tie up loos ends. The reason he didnt want you near his car was because he already had a body in the trunk of a child and was wondering how he would get you in there with the bike. Gloves were to prevent getting fingerprints on the bike. Once he killed you, he would of dumped you, the body in his trunk, and your bike in that lake. The property was probably a rarely used park, rented out for parties like the one Gacy accidentally ran into. The fact he ended up there with you in the car and a lot of witnesses to say you were with him should you turn up missing is why he let you go. From what I been reading from you and the news, its quite obviouse he was mob connected. His property a dumping ground for his own pleasure and for his connections needing a place to get rid of bpdies wether under his house or in one of his many hiding places. The fact that one suicided and now know the relations to the mob, can bet it was no suicide. Dont destroy your work, though if you got to move, dont leave a fowarding address. Pay your bills and just go and start over. If you kill your work then your giving them the opertunity to kill you.
The realization of slander lawsuits on behalf of a mass murderer in regards to Deep Quarry may unfortunately be a textbook example to show the people the grotesquely magnified effects of a non-investigated major crime, to show the people the magnified ill effects of the misuse of the blue code of silence, and it also serves to show the people how even a mass murderer can be multi-protected by the laws that were designed to protect honest people. Mr. Michael J. Rossi, who was Gacy’s employee, wherever he is, is sitting smug right now (as was Mr. David F. Cram and potentially others), multi-protected by; 1) The non-investigation of the late 1970’s mass murders covertly and incorrectly blamed on John Wayne Gacy. 2) The blue code of silence; 3) The potential volley of attorneys, through no fault of their own, who are willing to work for free, willing to take up the cause of protecting a mass murderer from “supposed” slander simply because there are “no reports”. 4) The potential Judges and Jurys, through no fault of their own, who can falsely and unjustly punish witnesses, simply because non-disclosure and non-investigation was the chosen and protected plan in 1979. All of these reasons can falsely prosecute the innocent, tie up the court systems, waste tax dollars and bring to public spotlight witnesses whose desires were to always remain anonymous for the safety of their family from lunatics and sympathizers. Unjustly finalized slander suits would be another coffin nail in the ethical protocols of justice, the protection of victims and witnesses rights, and the system of due process. If anyone needs legal protection from the misuse of power it is the people, and NOT the criminals. This all could have been avoided with simple honesty in government that used strict proper protocol. There are no valid reasons to protect the interests of a mass murderer.
Enough is enough Mr. Rossi, I will take the chance that there is no other human with your exact looks, name and age. I will be putting your photo on imageshack very soon Mr. Rossi. You were David F. Crams friend and together you killed a lot of people in that quarry during the late 70’s. History called you and Cram “innocent kids”. But with all the bloodshed lately history now knows what kids are capable of. You cannot undo with good deeds all the damage that you have done. Please contact the Dupage or Cook County police and turn yourself in.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/10/19/high-school-principals-arrest-stuns-upstate-n-y-town/
http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120111/NEWS/201110335/-1/SITEMA
There is a lot more on this guy if you search the internet. This is the guy who, although aged, looks exactly like mass murdering thug#2 (from all my artwork, maps and postings) from what is now known as Deep Quarry ( a confidential mass murder site) in Dupage County during the late 70’s. I need more witnesses. If anyone else had seen or knows of Cram, Rossi, Gacy or any of their other friends in that area during the late 70’s please contact the Cook or Dupage County police to help collaborate my story. Without more witnesses or evidence my story could be dismissed.
Mr. Michael J. Rossi, the mass murdering friend of Cram and Gacy’s at Deep Quarry is in one heck of an inescapable quandary. Failure to sue me for slander is an admission of guilt as far as I am concerned and if he does foolishly attempt to sue me for slander it would be impossible for him to contain the ilk and magnitude of the hidden evil he possesses inside under the subtle manipulation of courtroom psychology. Despite the fact that the police are not talking, not admitting any wrong doing and our politicians possess the strongest code of silence in the country, there is no way that a mass murderer is going to walk. That much evil will never triumph in an Illinois courtroom. Michael J. Rossi is in a lose/lose situation and time is running out. Michael J. Rossi needs to turn himself in to the Dupage County or the Cook County police while there is still time to do it quietly.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/560/firstencounterapprox197.png/
I am moving this down to see if I get more hits on imageshack. This is my first Gacy encounter map. This was a couple of years before I started seeing David F. Cram and Michael J. Rossi showing up and killing people and throwing them in the lake.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/legal-separation-of-police-and-politics/
We the undersigned, wish to change the laws of the United States of America to make it a federal crime for any elected official to mandate investigative directives, or to influence in any manner any police organization during any felony investigation.
Exclusions; Governor, Judges, States Attorneys, County Sheriffs.
The main reason for this petition will be to remove individuals with limited law enforcement expertise from the law enforcement branch and to remove conflicts of personal interest.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/legal-separation-of-police-and-politics/
NO PETITION SIGNATURES, NO MEDIA COVERAGE!
Is it the peoples fear of the government? Is it apathy? Is it disbelief? If I were a betting man I would bet on sheer disbelief. My allegations towards the politicians are a tough pill to swallow. There was the ordering of; falsifying death records, tampering with evidence, moving victim’s remains around, intentionally not launching a mass murder investigation, possible court fraud, possible perjury, duping the public with false statements, decoying the media with Summerdale Ave, creating an air of mystery regarding the fates of these victims, ordering the police to follow questionable orders, ordering the police both past and present to follow the blue code of silence, secretly placing blame entirely on Gacy without due process, playing word games with “no reports, etc, etc. Why would anyone believe a dirty laundry list of this stinking magnitude?
STILL NO PETITION SIGNERS!
I ask the few people who are actually reading this; Do we want politicians who are minimally trained in law enforcement telling the police what to do? Do we want murderers and thugs running around on our streets simply because politicians think they know what’s best? Only the people can stop this from happening. The politicians are not going to stop themselves. The police cannot stop the politicians because they often take their orders from them. By allowing politicians to pull stunts like Deep Quarry and other lesser stunts, we are giving them the green light to do whatever they want. We pay their salaries and often give them lifetime benefits paid for with our taxes. This is the peoples country, not the politicians own personal empire to do whatever they want. They are supposed to be public servants but somehow along the way they have placed themselves to be above the citizens, above the laws of the land, above the laws of humanity and even above the basic rules of common sense. If Cram and Rossi had killed one of their friends or family member it would be a whole different story. Please sign the petitions to separate the police from the politicians.
NEXT YEAR 2014.
This is a rough draft for a petition during the summer next year if John Wayne Gacy’s employee Michael J. Rossi is not brought to justice due to stonewalling by public officials. This is not a witch hunt for public officials. This is bringing one of the worst mass murderers in history to justice. I will not allow a political agenda to stand in the way of justice.
—START OF PROPOSED 2014 PETITION—-
PERMANENT LEGAL SEPARATION OF POLICE AND POLITICIANS PART 3
“DEEP QUARRY MASS MURDERS COVER UP”
We the undersigned citizens of the United States of America believe in honesty in government and demand to know the truth in regards to the existence of the confidential late 1970’s mass murder site at what is now known as Deep Quarry in Dupage County IL. We further demand that the following public officials and employees be given legal depositions in order to launch a federal probe to get to the truth as to ALL of the true perpetrators of these heinous mass murders;
1- X
2- X
3- Etc, etc.
We further demand to know the truth about;
1) x?
2) x?
3) Etc, etc,
The purpose of this petition will be to open up an investigation into the mass murders at Deep Quarry, something our government supposedly never did.
I will drop this if Rossi is brought to justice.
—END OF PROPOSED 2014 PETITION—-
The above petition was cancelled but may return someday.
PERMANENT LEGAL SEPARATION OF POLICE AND POLITICIANS PART 2
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/permanent-legal-separation-of-police-and/
We the undersigned, wish to change the laws of the United States of America to make it a federal crime for any public official or public employee to mandate the non-investigation of a felony crime.
Exclusions; none.
The main reason for this petition will be to provide a documentation trail for future discovery and to remove conflicts of personal interest.
The above petition was cancelled but may return someday.
PERMANENT LEGAL SEPARATION OF POLICE AND POLITICIANS PART 1
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/legal-separation-of-police-and-politics/
We the undersigned, wish to change the laws of the United States of America to make it a federal crime for any elected official to mandate investigative directives, or to influence in any manner any police organization during any felony investigation.
Exclusions; Governor, Judges, States Attorneys, County Sheriffs.
The main reason for this petition will be to remove individuals with limited law enforcement expertise from the law enforcement branch and to remove conflicts of personal interest.
The above petition was cancelled but may return someday.
STILL NO PETITION SIGNERS!
OK now I give up, it’s all coming back, the incredible despair of being disbelieved, this reminds me too much of what I went through years ago when I told people that Gacy was running around Shick Road, Mallard Lake, the quarry (Deep Quarry) and that other remote place Gacy took me to in order to murder me, the one I feel I should not mention because children now go there and they never tore the building down. Without resolution of morally just and honest principals our government is leaving a message that evil can win, that even mass murderers can go free, that lies and dishonesty are valued in society, that truth in government is only a myth, that oaths have no meaning. Illinois, you have laid the groundwork for our kids to grow up to be just like you guys, or worse yet, like Cram and Rossi, for what deterrent have they None!
18 MONTHS!
You all have 18 months before I launch class action lawsuits and publicize my petitions. In a macabre camaraderie of misfortune many honest lawmen and mass murderer Mr. Michael J. Rossi are all bound by the same quest, to pretend Deep Quarry never happened. 18 months gentlemen. You have my solemn word that I will drop all of this if Rossi is brought to justice within this 18 month period. -The Deep Quarry witness
Please beware of any postings by people who claim to be me; however as of today I still haven’t seen any. I have intentionally left a great deal of information out. To see the progression of my recollections and investigation please sort the “postings of none” by date starting on July 4th, 2012.
Turn yourself in Mr. Rossi, while there is still time to do so quietly.
You will probably be somewhat protected by a group of Illinois lawmen and politicians who obviously want Deep Quarry hushed up. If anybody has any questions or concerns please email me at deepquarry@yahoo.com
-The Deep Quarry witness
Does anyone believe me? -The Deep Quarry witness. deepquarry@yahoo.com
Yes, I think many things you’ve said seem real and believable. I’m just not sure that this series of events, as heinous as it may be, and which would have occurred over 30 years ago, is the right rallying cry to clean up any corruption that currently exists in the police department. Most of the officers who were in charge at the time are likely no longer with the department and current ones are probably not privy to the details of what occurred at the time. .
Thanks Cliff for your honesty and input, I just pulled the petitions, they were going nowhere fast. As I stated and inferred several times; I am not on a witch hunt for those public officials responsible 30 years ago but I needed some spark to get Sheriff John Zaruba to stop burying his head in the sand. John Zaruba was around back then, he was young but he knows what happened. I commend his willingness to protect the police brotherhood and the old politicians from the unfortunate calamity of 1979 that was initially done with the best of intentions, but now in the age of information things have changed, and Zaruba is now, perhaps unknowingly, enabling one of the most prolific mass murderers of all time to remain free. By now Sheriff Tom Dart and Becker-Stephenson hopefully have found others to help put the thumbscrews on Rossi and his friends however Deep Quarry is in rural Dupage County and Sheriff John Zaruba needs to get out of the dugout and step up to the plate; it is going to take an entire team to finish this and main players should not be watching from the dugout.
STILL NO EMAILS, NO SIGNERS, STILL NOTHING!
How frustrating and humiliating, at least the right people know that I am telling the truth and that is my family, the police and old politicians and of course one of the mass murderers himself, Michael J. Rossi who I identified on the internet who needs to turn himself in, or foolishly defend himself in court, or do nothing except enjoy the book(s) that someone will release about Cram and himself even if I have to do it myself. -The Deep Quarry witness. email at deepquarry@yahoo.com
I have created over 100 pages of documents and emails, including artwork. I have risked defamation lawsuits from some of the most powerful people in government both past and present. I have risked defamation lawsuits from Michael J. Rossi, who I identified on the internet
Continued. as being a mass murderer. No 55 year old man would ever make up a story so long, so complex, and so risky in defamation from so many very powerful people. No 55 year old man would risk police retaliation or railroading unless he was telling the truth. My freedom from police railroading is a testament to the truths I speak regarding the Deep Quarry mass murder coverup and Rossi, Cram and Gacy’s involvement. -the deep quarry witness F.
PLEASE UNSEAL THE DEEP QUARRY RECORDS.
I was not asking in my petitions to clean up the corruption within the police departments so much as trying to loosen the grip that the politicians have over the police. The Deep Quarry quagmire of deception spawned by the 1979 politicians is just one ugly example of the many stunts that politicians pull on a regular basis. The end result of politicians sealing records and mandating secrecy specifically in the case of Deep Quarry has turned out to be a glaring example of what can now be called blind accidental stupidity. The police became pawns at that point and the citizens became the recipients of supreme injustice, thus ensuring a perpetual situation where the table of protection has been turned backwards to protect only the criminals. In the case of Deep Quarry; 2 young mass murdering thugs made a monkey out of the system and the governmental response is denial thereby creating a diabolical blueprint for future thugs who now respect the actions of Cram and Rossi. Is our government as an entity that damn broken to be so blind? Only time will tell.
STOP SHOVELING THE MANURE.
Blind accidental stupidity when desperately concealed becomes absolute stupidity.
That manure comment was aimed at the Dupage County, Cook County and Illinois government as an entity regarding the Deep Quarry coverup and not at anybody in particular. Any insults felt personal by any one individual person is strictly accidental and unintended.
This cannot be any more personally depressing, 30 years of being unjustifiably made to look like a storyteller and a liar by the very government that is supposed to protect honest citizens but instead has chosen to protect its own screwups thereby enabling mass murderers to go free. Deep Quarry is the most screwed up situation ever in the history of law unenforcement political decision making. I have a personal “Go to hell list” but there are no public records of it. -the deep quarry witness F.
TO THE MAJOR MEDIA (big major newspapers)
I have sent a few emails to the major media (big major newspapers), and they do not even have the common courtesy to respond to me even ONCE. The major media who are not listening to me are being (for lack of better terms) gigantic dumbasses who need to pull their thumbs out of their butts and their noses out of the butts of the major screwups who orchestrated the Deep Quarry secret cleanup and stop being pawns for government coverups. I don’t care how many awards, speeches, documentaries, books or public landmarks are named after these people. These people need to fix their mistakes like everyone else has to. They are not demi gods, they are humans who screwed up and now they need to fix it. The people who orchestrated this event have accidently enabled mass murderers to remain free for 30 plus years and counting. Don’t be decoyed and manipulated like the press was during the 1979 Summerdale decoy. -The Deep Quarry Witness F.
There are more murderous kid in the news again, yet history continues to call Cram and Ross innocent kids who were under Gacys spell. Damn it Zaruba, Doria, Elrod and Thompson, I saw them kill people that I can descibe.You all accidently protected mass murderers and now your towered ego intentionally still protects them. Your oversight will soon turn into a full blown conspiracy against the people unless you fix your mistake.
THERE ARE 5 MEN;
who are at great risk to their legacies regarding the public concealment of the Deep Quarry mass murders. I beseech them all to get the ball rolling and investigate the true perpetrators of the mass murders which were concealed from the public in 1979 at Deep Quarry. I have given the authorities 2 positive identifications (1 living in NY and 1 deceased) and just recently enough information to possibly identify a third abductor on the path of death. I particularly beseech 3 men who concealed Deep Quarry from the public in 1979 to not rest upon their laurels nor underestimate the public bulldogs. The ruse is over, you all had a good run at it, now please fix what you started before history distorts your endeavors. In this case, your legacies will be rooted only in your final honesties.
–The Deep Quarry witness F.
You 5 men are in the very least guilty of the crimes shown below because there is no statute of limitation on murder, especially mass murder. The 1979 extensive laundry list of unmitigated pomposity pales in comparison to allowing mass murderers continued freedom in today’s world. You now have 15 months to fix your oversight before I take it upon myself to bring legal action upon you. Of course you are all lawyers and lawmen. You are the people who imprison others for doing what you yourselves have done and are still doing. You are or were at the highest levels of Illinois government. Do not railroad me to “prove your integrity” because too many people know the truth of what you have done, including yourselves and God. You of all people know how to fix this oversight, so please do so.
A person obstructs justice when, with intent to prevent the apprehension or obstruct the prosecution or defense of any person, he knowingly commits any of the following acts:
(a) Destroys, alters, conceals or disguises physical evidence, plants false evidence, furnishes false information.
“A person is an accessory to a crime if, with intent to hinder, delay or PREVENT the discovery, detection, apprehension, prosecution, conviction or punishment of another for the commission of a crime, he renders assistance to such person.” This crime can be up to a Class 4 FELONY, punishable by up to two (2) years in prison and/or a fine up to $500,000.00
COPY OF LETTER SENT TO DUPAGE COUNTY THIS MORNING.
Gentlemen,
1) I am now ready to forsake my anonymity and publicly accuse Michael J. Rossi Sr. of Rock Tavern NY who partnered with David F. Cram (deceased) with mass murder at Deep Quarry.
2) 1979 loopholes and/or blind accidental stupidity by sealing records or intentionally not taking reports are not valid reasons to protect one of the worst mass murderers in history.
3) Please explain to:
-Sheriff of Dupage County John Zaruba,
-former Shrf. Of Dupage County Richard Doria,
-former Gov. of IL James Thompson
-former Shrf. Of Cook County Richard Elrod
that there are no valid reasons to protect mass murderers.
4) Anyone who disagrees with the statement that there are NO VALID REASONS TO PROTECT MASS MURDERERS needs to explain why.
5) This email will eventually be distributed, please prepare your answer to question #4.
Thanks,
F……………….
shadowreports note:
(Yes I am worried, I have the utmost distrust in the government at this point. Their actions in 1979 and even now are unfathomable. -The Deep Quarry Witness F.)
Michael J. Rossi, I challenge you to sue me for defamation!
Thanks to those gentlemen listed above, there are no records of the mass murders I saw you guys commit. Their blind accidental stupidity in 1979 by intentionally taking no records will assure you a complete victory. So sue me Rossi before I write a book about you. Those guys listed above will not protect me because they broke so many laws it is embarrassing. They are highly awarded and politically clean. They will deny what they did. They even have monuments bestowed upon them by the people. Nobody will ever believe me over them.
I will willingly help you get started on the lawsuit against me.
I will even try to reunite you with your aluminum thug club that I took from you and Cram that day in 1977. You guys used them to ram stones down people throats didn’t you?
Turn yourself in or SUE ME.
FFM. age 55, deepquarry@yahoo.com
Hi Michael Rossi, I almost forgot, when you sue me for defamation. In Illinois we have something called the blue code of silence. No matter how bad your 4 accidental protectors Thompson, Elrod, Doria, and Zaruba fuck up, the justice system is right there for them. All those laws they broke in 79, don’t worry the blue code of silence will protect them. The blue code of silence is amazing, there are guys in Illinois who slink through the shadows of criminality yet thanks to the blue code of silence they get to maintain that good old fashion persona of fake respectability. Yes Mr. Rossi, your mass murders are safely hidden. Those guys will protect you, and Illinois will protect them. Everyone’s protected…… well…….except the honest citizens of course.
-Sheriff of Dupage County John Zaruba,
-former Shrf. Of Dupage County Richard Doria,
-former Gov. of IL James Thompson,
-former Shrf. Of Cook County Richard Elrod,
1) I understand their embarrassment but they let mass murderers off the hook, FOR LIFE! They won’t admit it or fix it. My attempts are futile.
2) The above Sheriff’s secretly told a limited number of trusted employees and officials that;
“We feel John Wayne Gacy is responsible, we have our man in custody, there is no need for an investigation”
(these words are repeated from one of their own officers.)
3) They misled the public for decades with the contrived and ambiguous statement that “there are no reports” which is true because they intentionally made no public reports.
4) They falsified death records.
5) They cordially invited and lured the media to John Wayne Gacys home on Summerdale Ave as a media decoy for months on end while Deep Quarry was being quickly and covertly dug out and cleaned up
6) They sealed records assuring that nobody would ever be charged with anything. Mass murderers, Obstructors of Justice, and Accessories to crimes and I mean a lot of crimes.
All let off the hook FOR LIFE, with no recourse for the honest citizens.
They need to fix this.
FFM -the Deep Quarry witness.
THE THIRD ABDUCTOR.
http://www.imageshack.com/photo/my-images/547/thirdabductor.jpg/
I had postponed telling this event on shadowreports until now. I did not want to direct the immediate attention away from Cram and Rossi who I know were absolutely guilty of mass murder. In the late 70’s there was a man who seemed to be with Cram and Rossi one day. This man, who looked to be in his late 30’s, somehow silently got behind me, sneaking up on me, and was very close to me when I turned around. He silently sidestepped to try and stay behind me so I would not see him as I spun around. I had walked all the way from my car to the path of death and there was no way that he had followed me the entire way. I don’t remember any other cars parked in the front that day except for mine, so he was probably dropped off with Cram and Rossi who were there quite often. When I turned around on this secluded path, this man was within 4 feet of me. Cram and Rossi were also both in motion then on their way up to the path of death from their fake fishing spot. I gave this guy a look that practically said “where in the hell did you come from?” He stood there silently with his big arms and palms out toward me as I walked around him. He had a very animated look of disappointment in his face. We both walked separate ways then. I turned around and left the path; this man then walked the other way down the path southbound toward the south end lake. I watched Cram turn around and go back to his fake fishing spot when he saw me leaving the path of death.
I stared this guy down as I walked around him while he stood there with both arms out, palms facing me in disappointment. When he walked away he was looking left and looking right, up and down and back and forth like he pretending to be interested in the scenery. I remember everything about this guy who I believe was a third abductor on the path of death. I never saw him on the ledge near the lake where Cram and Rossi accosted and dropped victims into the water. I never saw him there again but I did meet a man who looked like him years later. I refer to this man as the third abductor, but cannot positively state that he is a murderer, only that he appeared to be working with Cram and Rossi and he tried to sneak up on me and grab me. I have given the authorities 2 possible names that I cannot disclose on this website. Please see my artwork on his face when the look of disappointment was upon his face after I turned around and found him sneaking up on me. He was 6 foot tall, strong broad build, big arms, balding in back, blondish slightly grey super short hair buzz cut, hook nose, polish ethnicity looking, nice clean clothes as described above. I got a very good look at this guy in front, profile and gait as he walked away, hands in both pockets of his tan colored knee length shorts, short sleeve white pullover shirt with collar, gold ribbon like designs on the shirt and a belt, white dress socks pulled high, clean gym shoes. Eventually I will artwork his entirety with clothes.
Here is the face of the third abductor with the disappointed look upon his face;:
http://www.imageshack.com/photo/my-images/547/thirdabductor.jpg/
There is a chance that this third abductors name may be Bill. A man who would be in his mid to late 70’s now.
The last name furnished upon request, but only to a lawman.
This man whose name may be Bill has a far differant polish first name. If the police continue to not investigate this third abductor it would show the people just exactly whose interests they are doing an excellent job protecting (not the citizens).
I tried to work with Mr. Zaruba, Mr. Thompson, Mr. Doria, and Mr. Elrod months ago. I even offered to rescind my story in the beginning but those guys are simply too tightly wedged onto the saddle of their high horse. What magnificent kings we crown with pomp and laurels in this state. I wonder how much tax payer money has been wasted trying to figure out how to keep covering up the accidental 1979 mistakes instead of fixing them? I know that the politicians must feel that they don’t deserve this, but damn it, it’s the people who don’t deserve this, because mass murderers were set free for life. This is unacceptable and please stop using the “no reports ruse”, that one is really getting old. BTW, Why are there no reports gentlemen?
-FFM, the Deep Quarry witness.
I changed this a little bit to include 2 more dangerous pitfalls.
The realization of slander lawsuits on behalf of a mass murderer in regards to Deep Quarry may unfortunately be a textbook example to show the people the grotesquely magnified effects of a non-investigated major crime, to show the people the magnified ill effects of the misuse of the blue code of silence, and it also serves to show the people how even a mass murderer can be multi-protected by the laws that were designed to protect honest people. Mr. Michael J. Rossi, who was Gacy’s employee, wherever he is, is sitting smug right now (as was Mr. David F. Cram and potentially others), multi-protected by;
1)The non-investigation of the late 1970’s mass murders covertly and incorrectly blamed 100% on John Wayne Gacy.
2)The blue code of silence;
3)The potential volley of attorneys, through no fault of their own, who are willing to work for free, willing to take up the cause of protecting a mass murderer from “supposed” slander simply because there are “no reports”.
4)The potential Judges and Jurys, through no fault of their own, who can falsely and unjustly punish witnesses, simply because non-disclosure and non-investigation was the chosen and protected plan in 1979.
5)Honest witnesses being falsely prosecuted for “filing a false police report” or being falsely declared mentally incompetent simply because there are “no reports”.
All of these reasons and more can falsely prosecute the innocent, tie up the court systems, waste tax dollars and bring to public spotlight witnesses whose desires were to always remain anonymous for the safety of their family from lunatics and sympathizers. Unjustly finalized slander suits would be another coffin nail in the ethical protocols of justice, the protection of victims and witnesses rights, and the system of due process. If anyone needs legal protection from the misuse of power it is the people, and NOT the criminals. This all could have been avoided with simple honesty in government that used strict proper protocol. There are no valid reasons to protect the interests of a mass murderer.
Mr. Website owner. Please send me your email address. I want to start sending you documents. I am forsaking my anonymity soon in order to make public charges. It is too bad it has come to this. Thanks, F. Marcus, Deep Quarry witness. send to deepquarry@yahoo.com
I need to post some of these documents now just in case I get asked to stop posting.
I have no idea if the police are actually going to do anything this time or if they are still just jacking me around.
(They are doctored up for shadowreports)
— On Sun, 7/22/12, F Marcus wrote:
From: F Marcus
Subject: Re: DuPage County Sheriff’s Office
To: ____________@DuPageSheriff.org,
Cc: “xxx”
Date: Sunday, July 22, 2012, 10:34 AM
Hi _____,_______,
I think I figured it all out. Deep Quarry was cleaned up a long time ago. I ran into Gacy and his associates many times in that quarry from 1972 to 1978. Those foul smelling dug up spots were graves. The Summerdale avenue cleanup turned out to be a media decoy, intentional or not, while the east quarry wall from one end to the other was dug out to get the victims out. They clean up for drowned victims too at the same quarry at that same time. _________ was most likely cleaned up at the same time and most likely __________ too.
However, the public does not deserve to have their loved ones secretly dug up or fished out of a lake and have mystery fates; that is not what the people pay taxes for. I believe that there were too many victims dug up or fished out of multiple locations to have privately contacted all the families as I was originally was led to believe after I started to investigate this matter. Apparently saving face was priority back in 1979.
So now the questions that you and everyone else at the P.D. will probably ignore and never answer are:
1) What did they do with the recovered victims that the government did not report to the families?
2) Why are the accomplices still free?
.
Regards,
F. Marcus
—————————–
Answer to a letter I sent regarding Deep Quarrys excavation.
From: XXXXXXXXXXXX
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 12:18 PM
To: F Marcus
Subject: RE: Deep Quarry Lake history
I have to tell you that I think the quarry operations account for 90% or more of the lake’s size. I’m guessing that about all the district did was smooth down the eastern side so there would not be a dangerous steep descent to the water on that side. At one point there was some discussion of making a swimming beach there, but talk of that ended when health department regulations made it likely we’d have to chlorinate the water (pretty much defeats the purpose of having a lake to swim in instead of a pool). But that also explains why the slope on the eastern side is pretty gradual.
I know that we have a lot of copies of aerial photos in existence, some of which have been digitized, but I don’t know whether we have the relevant ones for this property. I think you would have to put in a Freedom of Information Act request to get hold of one. I don’t know if there is one from the time period immediately before the district acquired the property (which would have been back in the 1960s or 1970s). Having those was standard operating procedure when we were looking at properties to buy in the 1990s, but I don’t know when that practice started. I also don’t know how far back the Supervisor of Assessments kept their old aerials (allowed them to see what buildings were on a property). You might end up having to contact the Sidwell Company, which did most of the aerial photography in DuPage County for decades.
XXXXX
XXXXX
XXXXX
Forest Preserve District of DuPage County
xxxxxxxxxxx
———————————–
From: F Marcus [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 11:59 AM
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Deep Quarry Lake history
Hi xxxxxxx,
I am doing a historical timeline on a particular area.
I am interested to know when construction began at the Quarry located at Gerber road and Army trail road in Northern Wayne Township?
Is there a plan drawing and aerial photograph of the way it was before the construction conversion began?
It was tiny with 2 small lakes and now it’s a big lake.
I am interested in one view looking straight down onto the center of the old quarry as shown in the attachment.
Is the person who spearheaded it still there?
Thanks,
— On Fri, 12/23/11, F. Marcus wrote:
From: F. Marcus
Subject: Re: DuPage County Sheriff’s Office
To: “xxxxxxxxxxxxx”
Date: Friday, December 23, 2011, 6:38 PM
Det. xxxxxxxxxx,
my cell is xxxxxxxxxxx
Regards,
F. Marcus
From: “xxxxxxxxxxxxx”
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 9:38 AM
Subject: DuPage County Sheriff’s Office
Mr. Marcus, my name is xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and I am the xxxxxxxxxxxxxx for the DuPage County Sheriff’s Office. The emails you have submitted were all forwarded to me. I have tried calling you, several times, but you have not been in the office. I would like to speak with you about your knowledge and the content of the emails you have sent. When you have some time could you please contact me at the below number. I am in the office during regular business hours Monday through Friday. Thank you for taking the time.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
DuPage County Sheriff’s Office
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I will not let this rest. Someone WILL go to jail. Will it be mass murderers? Will it be the honest witness railroaded in the most disgusting act of unmitigated pomposity ever by politicians? I would not put anything past Illinois right now. What they did at Deep Quarry says it all. -F. Marcus, Deep Quarry witness.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/gacycramrossiwithunknow.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/89/gacycramrossiunknown2gcw.jpg/
Here are 2 pieces of artwork as described in a few of my earlier postings , (most notably, July 29, 2012 and Aug 1, 2012) of the first time I saw Cram and Rossi at Deep Quarry around 1975 or 1976. In the beginning of my shadowreports postings I had not yet determined their identities. In the beginning of my postings, I incorrectly assumed that the police would help me identify them, which they did not do. Time will tell if they will actually do anything this time. I have really ruffled some political feathers lately.
Heres a document showing before and after the 1979 cleanup as it relates to the thugmaps.
I Felix Francis Marcus, b. NFLD, CANADA 1957, an eyewitness to mass murders performed throughout the late 1970’s at what is now known as Deep Quarry in rural Dupage County IL;
1) I publicly charge Michael J. Rossi and his friend David F. Cram (deceased) with mass murder from 1976-1979 whereupon I observed them prey upon approximately one dozen victims on a secluded path, kidnap them, murder them and then dispose of their bodies in the small south end lake of the quarry. The victims cars were then driven away by the pair of murderous young thugs. I charge them with attempted murder on my own life at least twice during that time and attempted car theft of my vehicle when they mistakenly had assumed my car belonged to one of their freshly murdered victims.
2) I further accuse the following men with
“Obstruction of Justice”,
“Accessory to a Crime”
-(tentatively) 1979 Governor James Thompson,
-(tentatively) Current Sheriff of Dupage County John Zaruba,
-(tentatively) former 1979 Sheriff of Dupage County Richard Doria,
-(tentatively) former 1979 Sheriff of Cook County Richard Elrod,
For the following offenses;
a) The non-investigation of the mass murders in which they told a limited number of trusted employees and officials that
“We feel John Wayne Gacy is responsible, we have our man in custody, there is no reason for an investigation”
(these words are repeated from one of their own officers.)
b) Telling their employees in secret that it was 23 young boys who were drowned by John Wayne Gacy, this was a lie, I saw at least one woman, and older men who were victims.
c) Falsifying death records.
d) Misleading the public for decades with the contrived and ambiguous statement that “there are no reports” which is true because they intentionally made no public reports.
e) Cordially inviting and luring the media to John Wayne Gacys home on Summerdale Ave as a media decoy for months on end while Deep Quarry was being quickly and covertly dug out and cleaned up.
f) Offering no assistance to me whatsoever in my identification of thus far 3 of the 4 thugs at Deep Quarry. (Gacy, Rossi, Cram and the third abductor)
g) Creating a mystery regarding the fates of the victims at Deep Quarry.
h) Creating a mystery regarding whether or not any reports or investigation were actually undertaken regarding the mass murders at Deep Quarry.
i) Ignoring eyewitness accounts for decades regarding John Wayne Gacy’s extensive presence in the Deep Quarry general area.
j) Ordering that the records be sealed, or else not taken thus assuring themselves as to never be indicted on charges with no recourse for the citizens of this country.
k) Ordering that the records be sealed , or else not taken thus accidently assuring that no Gacy friends will ever be indicted on charges with no recourse for the citizens of this country.
l) Ordering that the records be sealed, or else not taken thus accidently assuring that some of the worst mass murderers in history will never be investigated with no recourse for the citizens of this country.
m) Creating an illegal situation where mass murder charges cannot even be filed.
n) Telling their employees in secret that the local politicians of Dupage and Cook Counties requested the cover up of for the purposes of avoiding bad publicity.
o) Misusing their power, misusing their affluence, misusing their perfect political record to maintain secrecy of their illegal cleanup
3) I further charge one other man, as yet unidentified, but easily identifiable, with assisting Cram and Rossi in the kidnappings on at least one occasion.
4) I further charge the state of Illinois for misusing their power since 1979 for illegal purposes of political favoritism by protecting the politicians illegal activities in their involvement in the Deep Quarry “no reports” ruse who have had otherwise impeccable careers. The “no reports” words twisted in a multitude of ways.
Felix Francis Marcus, age 55, Deep Quarry mass murder witness.
The “Michael Rossi”, who was an associate of Gacy is not the “Michael J. Rossi” in NY…….Gacy’s associate still lives in the Chicago area.
All,
1. I misunderstood the meaning and implication of the words “accuse” and want to rescind my accusations against the government officials listed below.
2. I did not realize that accusations are viewed as chargeable.
3. I was trying to light a fire under the feet of the only people who could find out who cleaned up Deep Quarry and get Rossi put away.
4. I have no idea who actually ordered the clean up at Deep Quarry.
5. Sorry if I angered some people, I just want to put Rossi away and find out if the third abductor is still around.
Felix Francis Marcus
I am using my legal birth name that only my friends, family and the authorities know.
I was born in St. Johns NFLD Canada in 1957 (check it out) and have dual citizenship.
Felix Francis Marcus
The Michael J. Rossi of NY is not the same Michael Rossi who was associated with Gacy…….The associate still lives in Illinois.
I attempted to post this earlier,I assume the moderator did not allow it?
Snoopy, He looks just like the man I saw in the quarry. Maybe you are right. I need to go find this guy and actually look at him.
The Illinois Rossi is not him Snoopy. The man in the quarry was Michael John Rossi, Clarkstown North High School, New City, New York, class of 76. He is not yet indexed on any classmate type website. To find him you need to go through the Clarkstown North year books. The newspapers very clearly stated that he “went east after the trial”. He went back home.
I have this horrible feeling of impending doom that I am going to go to jail for defamation.
I literally have non-stop chest pains that get worse every day.
The intensity of the pain is proportional to the amount of time I spend on this subject matter. I am too embarrassed to see a therapist because I have accumulated a vast amount of subject matter, none of which can be verified thanks to the taking of no reports. I am a disbelieved witness and the pain is indescribable.
Felix Francis Marcus
WHY I FEEL DOOMED.
The police are going to investigate their 1979 files, and once they find nothing, through no fault of the 2013 police, some other department can legally make an unjustified public example out of me.
The more lengthy and in depth their investigation of my claims are the more it will actually work against me. At this moment, thanks to 1979 politicians, I literally have less protection from prosecution than the mass murderers those politicians unleashed upon society. Good job guys, real good job of getting the bad guys, you could not have screwed up any more if you tried.
F. Marcus, the Deep Quarry witness.
I was also told that I making matters worse with all the things that I am sending out, they want me to stop. They are so mad at me that the last conversation was dominated with what I did wrong. I will be the first to admit I made a few mistakes and stepped on some toes in this disclosure of events. But in the grand scheme of things everybody’s feelings, including my own, should be inconsequential compared to bringing mass murderers to justice. We need focus, not arguments about who did what wrong.
I hope you are okay.
Thank You, I think I am going to be OK. So far the heart specialist is saying that my problems may be 100% stress related. When they say stress kills, they are not kidding. I have no idea how some people live with stress every single day of their lives. I just need to stay relaxed, no matter what happens, even if it means giving up and letting the thugs win.
This has got to be my last post. I just can’t take it any more. You can’t fight city hall let alone an entire state. I will testify in the slim hopes of being called upon but other than that goodbye. -Felix Francis Marcus
I’m sorry you are in such distress. I just happened upon this site a couple of days ago, and read most of your posts.I became intrigued since I have followed the Gacy case from day 1, and there always seemed to be unanswered questions regarding his so-called associates. Please do not think I’m doubting what you’ve experienced. I was just curious about a few things.
1.Why would you go back to that area after witnessing murders.?
2.Did you tell the police right away?
3.How did you know their identities?
4.Why did you feel they wouldn’t harm you?
Why would you go back to that area after witnessing murders.?
At the time I thought I saw drunk people, lounging people, laying down people, drugs dealers, people doing bongs, strange fishing formations. With no reports ever happening I dismissed everything. One thing the victims all had in common, they all disappeared with Cram and Rossi walking out of the quarry alone. I eventually came to realize that laying down or propped up victims on the ledge of death were completely motionless. There are many postings related to that subject.
Look at the postings of none starting July 4th 2012 especially with the imageshack links that show my artwork and maps.
2.Did you tell the police right away?
I realized last Jan that I did tell a policeman around 1980 about Gacys extensive presence and my dealings with him in the Shick Road area. The officer dismissed me because there were “no reports”. See Jan 14th post
3.How did you know their identities?
I had to find them myself because the police would not help me. All the police did was to tell me there were no reports. But now I know better. There are many postings related to that subject.
4. Why did you feel they wouldn’t harm you?
I avoided them all as much as possible as many of my earlier postings describe until the day I wound up in Gacys car.
There are many postings related to that subject.
I really need to stop posting. I am making things worse.
deepquarry@yahoo.com
ANSWERS TO SNOOPY (the detailed answers to your questions are in my many postings of none) Here are some quick answers.
1) Why would you go back to that area after witnessing murders.?
I didn’t know they were murders at that time. I thought I saw drunk people, drug deals, lounging people at lakeside, strange fishing practices, my eyes playing tricks on me, and other things; because there were no police reports in conjunction with those guys being there for several years before and after I let it go. I knew something was wrong at that time but I didn’t know what, so I lightly avoided those guys and that’s about it. I started getting heavily
suspicious in 2010 when Dupage County would not investigate my Gacy
encounters at Deep Quarry and the other areas. I finally figured out in July 2012 what happened at Deep Quarry after I read and analyzed Frank Mains article regarding Becker Stephenson’s investigations. The site described in Frank Mains article must have been Deep Quarry. I also remembered that there were rumors of secret cleanups back then. I also found out from one source that there was at least one major secret cleanup back then, I just did not know where. Everything pointed to Deep Quarry.
2) Did you tell the police right away?
Yes. I eventually remembered in great detail that about 1980 or 1981 I told a high ranking Cook County deputy in a 67 or 68 dark Blue Eldorado with “ELROD” license plates about Gacys extensive presence in that area. He listened with interest but then dismissed my story. I gave the current police a sketch of this officers face even though I don’t know what good it will do.
3) How did you know their identities?
I looked on the internet until I found their pictures. I had an idea who they were from reading Wikipedia.
4) Why did you feel they wouldn’t harm you?
I lightly avoided them, that’s all. I did not have a deep rooted fear of any of them. The only deep fear I ever had was when Gacy first chased me on my bicycle. After that I avoided him but it was not a deep fear, just enough to avoid him and his friends. I was there many times on my bicycle, my cars and my dirt bike. I saw those guys there a lot and became accustomed to seeing them. At that time, with no reports ever happening in that area there was no reason to have a deep rooted fear.
-Felix Francis Marcus, Deep Quarry witness.
I was looking up what you said and came across this article by Daily News. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/john-wayne-gacy-accomplices-new-investigators-article-1.1020824
Though they dont mention the creek, whats mentioned seems to match what you have been discussing. What also seems a bit wierd, Gacy was a pedafile, yet two adults were buried on his property he denied anything to do with. This cleanup your talking about, may in fact not be police related as you think. Gacy had business ties, definately mafia. Its quite possible when he was arrested, this big cleanup was done by fake officers. Back then its was easy to obtain a uniform as many companies who made them never bothered to check ID to who they were sold to, hence a lot of arrests throughout the country years to come of fake officers. When Gacy was arrested, the others pannicked and did the cleanup and moved the evidence elsewhere. As good as the cleanup was done back then, there is ways to test for DNA. Im sure the area can be checked.
Thanks for showing me that story, that was published right about the same time as Frank Mains Sun Times article. Given the fact that that story was 17 months ago and nothing happened, I contend that the investigation was squashed by unscrupulous or embarrassed government SOB’s who want the true story of Deep Quarry hushed up. I have more on this in my earlier postings when I was more on the governments side but as of today, with Rossi still running around I no longer believe anything the government says in this matter. This will all change if the police put them away soon, but until then I am thoroughly disgusted with the government.
The police back then were not as advanced and trained like the ones today. prime example is the boston bombings. Places like NY would have possibly found them or the suspects before they were set off. Now a days most police depts are connected so if an arrest is or was made in one state theyll know in another. The police who had to deal with all the bodies im sure at the time were not of mind to think of other places till after the fact. Closure is necessary and property should be checked. I dont think any police dept back then have ever had to deal with a bunch of childrens murders like this.
The police are being trained all right, so are the new states attorneys and the new governor, trained on how to look good by the slick politicians of yesteryear.
Interesting link a month old. This isnt stamped out as much as you think.
http://us.yhs4.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0oGdMUdxK5RBBAAH.MPxQt.?fr2=showall&p=gacy+had+accomplices&pvid=uFB9mUoGdQ.M75mHUXldEAZzYxHMpVGuw7YAAbDz&type=att_lego_portal_home&xa=LO0MYcR6NVYS7HlV0AInNQ–%2C1370494267&hsimp=yhs-att_001&hspart=att
Gacy claims he never killed or saw these people. What this is looking liketo me that they might be more than accomplances. They might actually be young killers (were back then) and used the space in house. There down to two since one is dead now, but as two are alive, I seriously doubt they have stopped killing and just shudder to think what these twos homes crawlspaces may hold. If 27 under Gacys home was bad in 7 years time, these two have had a 35 year jump. Which would probably explain why the police force hasnt bothered to go after them,because if this has happened, the officers who failed to follow up retired or not will be held accountable, not tomention others past their time. Its ahornets nest everyones afraid to touch.
sorry, link coppied wrong.
I was told that that comment was really cruel. So I apologize.
http://imageshack.us/user/turboquark
I am putting my artwork regarding my Deep Quarry eyewitness account on this link. This links artworks some of the things that I saw. I will be adding more as time permits. Thus far I cannot get the media to believe me. All the crooks are welcome to sue me for supposed slander. 17 months have gone by and nothing happened with the Becker-Stephenson investigation despite originally stating that arrests were only a month or two away. The government must have squashed their investigation or are looking to create new deception tactics. They have been using the “no reports ruse on me” since 1980 and once again starting in July 2010. I have had enough. I am fed up with being made to look like a liar. I am ready to fight back.
Felix Francis (Frank) Marcus, age 56
Hey none, I don’t want to stress you, but posting your info (i hope its fake) is bad, very bad because if the two surviving killers see it, they could come looking for you knowing now who you are. And once a killer, always a killer. Im not one to care much for arms, but if I were you and have family, I would get a permit if required, and train well in using it properly. If your lucky and they see this, and im being sarcastic with saying lucky, they might stop by and then the police will have all the evidence needed.
If the place was cleaned up by someone else, there is always a lead, especially since Gacy kept very emaculate records of his business and contacts.It will take time, but Im sure those vehicles that did the cleanup can still be found. Big equipment like this is next to never junked out like old cars because they are heavy duty and fixed up unless extremely bad condition. The bodies are somewhere and if theres a lot will be found one day.Mass murders almost always are.
Take for instance the poor indian girl (dont remember name) The cheating husband knocked her up, killed her and sealed her up in a can in his house. As new owners wanted space, during renovations, the can was found and her remains. When police went to question the origional owner, he shot and killed himself.
Gacy destroyed a family on my block years ago. I was 4 back then when I came late to my friends party. Was too young to realize what was going on but learned later my friends parents were contractors too. The mom was one of the types that liked to minipilate the comunity to make herself look good but when the murders were discovered, came crashing down on the family by neighbors. Didnt helpshe was acoke head too. Family got divorced and moved and never heard from them again. Another neighbor just vanished and house stayed borded up for years. Never knew why my parents had freaked out years back until recently when the case was reopened for dna testing and read about it and saw the clown picture. Then it hit me why my mom drilled me about strangers, dont get in cars with anyone, even clowns. Many thought he was going to get out. Glad he didnt. Unfortunately the death penalty which was well deserved, could of helped get his accomplaces. Fact two child killers still alive, bothers me a lot.
Xanthor, I see that you too are skeptical and calling my information “hopefully fake”. Do you know what it’s like to be falsely called a liar and storyteller for over 30 years? Well anyway, as for those guys coming to get me or my family. I was never deeply afraid of those guys when I lived there. I have no kids, never did. My family is only my extended family who live all over Canada and the US, most with different last names. I have dual citizenship and have lived in many many places. I have only been in the last place continuously for 1 year. They would have a real hard time finding me up here. I don’t even know where I am going to be in the future and I am always moving around. My name is actually more common than you might think. But you are right. I probably should never have put my name out there. I just couldn’t take it anymore and started telling the authorities everything. I have left a great deal of information out in these postings. The Illinois police know exactly who I am, that is all that matters right now. Wish me luck, I am going to need it.
You signed a name that I said I hope was fake, not anything you have been saying. These guys are killers, and much older now. Dont give up, but same time do things safely. I dont want to read the headlines they been caught because they got to you. BTW, after Gacy was caught, did they continue killing or did it end at that spot?
Did they continue killing or did it end at that spot?
That’s a real good question for the police. Researchers could investigate that question until the cows come home. The associates’ probably laid low for awhile after 1979 thanking Illinois for their secret accidental lifetime pardon. It seems a little suspicious that Cram died at the tail end of a flurry of suicides in the woods and elsewhere. I do remember going to the quarry on my bike shortly after Gacy was caught. I was 22 and it was in the warm seasons. The cleanup was already done because the quarry was super flooded and all dug out where Gacy, Cram, Rossi and the third abductor were hanging out for years before. I traveled down the path of death on my bike and there was water way up on both sides of the path making the ground spongy and it felt unsafe from so much water so close on both sides of that narrow path. I gingerly turned my bike around before I ever got to where the ledge of death used to be thinking I was going to fall in the water on my bike. Later on the park district would change the lake again to its present shape.
-Felix Francis Marcus
Hey none, I saw the picture of what your calling a Thug club/ramrod. Do you stil have it? If you do, Id call a lawyer immediately. Im hoping you havent touched it, least much, but that item if you have it will not only contain the DNA of everyone killed by it, the DA whose been doing the DNA testing may want that item to see if it matches any of the dead people Gacy killed, and if so, will connect the murders to the accomplaces. I hope your state isnt one of the few with statute of limitations that include murder, if so would explain why nothings been done, but, again, the DA may still want to test it because im sure they killed after and that it wouldnt be to hard to get the last 2 surviving killers DNA. Touching that evidence possibly killed any chance of finger prints, but least DNA is still possible.
Im suprised some of this info never made it into this article. Was doing research, and it turns out the first time Gacy ever killed someone was when he was 15, which he admitted to but charges never brought up or body looked for. Makes me wonder what the heck the police dept was thinking. Made huge story, and definately ignored further info.
What other info is available on this? Is there a website that can be referenced?
Sorry for the confusion factor!
Xanthor, this posting method I am utilizing on shadowreports of my ”day to day recollections” has caused great confusion. Looking back it was the wrong way to disclose all this new information. I originally did it this way in order to publicly protect myself because my extended family thought that I would get in great trouble for spilling the beans on the 1979 cops and politicians. One of them also felt that the criminals might come after me too. All the posts thus far by “none” starting July 4, 2012 are mine. If you start reading from there I mentioned metal rods many times from the very beginning. At that time I had not yet remembered that I accidently took one of those thug clubs from those guys in 1977 which I eventually remembered on Aug 3, 2012. I then posted this new info immediately on this website. I immediately offered the thugclub to the police who showed no immediate interest in it. One guy eventually took it off my hands a few weeks later. I have no idea what his plans are with it. It took 35 years for me to realize what the club was. Due to lack of interest on my part it took 35 years for me to realize what happened at Deep Quarry, which is the main reason why the major media won’t listen to me. This is also why the police won’t acknowledge what happened and appear to want to keep this swept under the rug. If they really and truly have no mass murder records then somebody needs to explain themselves. Living with mass murderers with no recourse is not what we pay taxes for.
Was doing some research today, and it hit me on the comment Gacy made day of his execution. His last words were “Kiss My Ass” Many a times on death row someone wants to clear the air or not say a thing. There were three contractor companies besides Gacy’s using the initials KMA, two of which from the 70s no longer exist though possibly under different name.
I thought Gacy’s company was PDM.
Did that post from my phone, so didnt come out the way I wanted it. To bad we cant edit our posts for errors. Anyway, yes, Gacy’s company was PDM. I ment back in the 70s There were several companies that used the initials KMA. Was thinking with his stupid humer, on death row when he said “Kiss My Ass” if he was deliberately using the statment to give a clue to the several companies now gone that used the KMA initials that were contractors and defunct or just renamed?The one contracter that exists not to far, I doubt has any relations as it was formed in 2011. Ones in 70s no clue where they went. Could be nothing, or had done business with Gacy.Id have loved to look through his business records, as he recorded everything he has ever done except the killings.
Ok, gotchya. A very good consideration. Are you able to look into any companies back then with the name BAK or Bak or principals with last name Bakal?
Yes, I can, so can anyone else. You just need to look at the county clerk records. Im trying to via the internet. Though its so old, may have to pay a fee to have them reprinted. Not every county and and state transfered all records from microfiche to electronic media. I’m even attempting to cross reference the names None listed to KMA. Anyway,if I do find something will post my findings here. Hope Nons doing ok, havent heard from himin several days. If the police want him quiet, especially so they can follow up on the investigation, its known very well many purposely will arrest or hold someone on a Friday night so they cant post bail till the weekday.
Hey none, by any chance is this the same Rossi?:
LLC FILE DETAIL REPORT
——————————————————————————–
Entity Name ROSSI BROS AUTO, LLC File Number 03775267
Status INVOLUNTARY DISSOLUTION On 04/12/2013
Entity Type LLC Type of LLC Domestic
File Date 10/28/2011 Jurisdiction IL
Agent Name NATHAN BOWENS Agent Change Date 10/28/2011
Agent Street Address 2019 E 169TH PL Principal Office 765 NEWELL
CALUMET CITY, IL 604090000
Agent City SOUTH HOLLAND Management Type MBR View
Agent Zip 60473 Duration PERPETUAL
Annual Report Filing Date 00/00/0000 For Year 2012
Series Name NOT AUTHORIZED TO ESTABLISH SERIES
I remember you mentioning that they stole cars, so also refined my search for autos and this came up.
I have many posts explaining why I believe the NY Rossi is the correct Rossi. What the police said I did wrong centered around my handling of the situation since my 6-25-2010 confidential Gacy disclosure to the police, the explicit details of which I cannot mention to the public d
Was that company around in the late 70”s?
The police recently told me some information that makes me believe that I will be OK no matter how this ends just as long as I stick to the truth. However, they are upset regarding my recent accusations against the politicians though. Additionally I was told early last year that putting these accusations on the internet was the wrong way to go about this. I need to cool it for awhile.
BTW, what you said over teh course of time, the police can do nothing. Its freedom os speech. Long as you have very good evidence, the suspects cant even sue you for libel and if they tried, would most definately kick them in their butts in the end.
Xanthor, well Yes and No, but you are mostly right. One high ranking policeman in particular definitely told me that I cannot just simply say the things I did about the politicians. They have rights too. My fear in signing investigative documents is basically I would appear before Ceaser, to accuse Ceaser, to receive judgment by Ceaser. See the problem? However the police have recently assured me that there are provisions for loopholed events of yesteryear. They told me a few weeks ago that they will investigate this matter. Keep in mind they still haven’t admitted that anything happened at Deep Quarry. But I need to put my faith in somebody, so I am now drawing a line of good faith and waiting to see what happens. However if Tom Dart and/or John Zaruba finds a way to put Rossi away while side stepping the Deep Quarry issue there is nothing I can do about it. Even if they can’t prosecute him there is nothing I can do about it. In which case I will left in a very precarious situation of having to look over my shoulder for the rest of my life. You were right, putting my name out there was bad, very bad, but now it’s too late. So I need to cool it for awhile.
Im sure the police are doing similar as I. THe above was a shot in the dark, that might actually be connected which was why I asked about KMA, Rossi and Cram because the three now defunct companies under the same name dealt with Autos and construction? This whole thing is getting more interesting every day. The reason the police have no clue as to the cleanup I have a huge feeling is because the ones from the past may not have had anything to do with the cleanup. Cram, Rossi, and the third may have told their parents what they been doing, or maybe the parents already knew so when Gasy was arrsted and having his entire property dug up, the families took advantage of the police being distracted and cleaned up the property removing the bodies elsewhere.
Hey none, was talking to a police officer friend of mine last night. Was talking to him about whats going on with you and the state/county. If you had mentioned this the day it happened, police would of acted immidiately just like when they arrested Gacy. But back then when you were young, were probably nieve like I was and didnt think of things till years later. Just because you dont hear anything, doesnt mean nothings getting done. When theres an open investigation, especially with an old case like this, the police never discuss it till after arrests are made. Reason for this is to catch the criminals and also get enough evidence that can be used, not evidence that can be dismissed due to statute of limitations. Remember, if they arrested Cram and Rossi the day you reported them and there wasnt enough evidence and they walked, when they found more evidence, they woulldnt not be allowed to try them again. Once enough evidence is gathered, theyll make an arrest plus possibly plea bargin with them to find out where the bodies are to avoid the death penalty. Just hang in there. The sad thing in all this is, the two remaining killers are in their 60s and as you said earlyer, spent it on a free pass from jail so to speak. Im just hoping the killing stopped because Im still worried whats under their homes.
TOO MANY QUESTIONS, NOT ENOUGH TIME.
Hi Xanthor,
Thank you for understanding, I need more people like you to help me.
About 1980 I did tell the police about Gacy’s and friends extensive presence in that area. Please see MAY 29, 2013 1:04 pm post. Despite having 3 cousins who were police officers I did not get along with the police back then. As far as their ages go; Cram and Rossi were/are both a little younger than me. I am 56. The third abductor is probably 15-20 years older than me. You mention an open investigation. The question is: Is there an open investigation into the Deep Quarry mass murderers I witnessed? Or is the investigation something else, something a little cheaper for the cash strapped state, or easier to grip that they are understandably not telling me.
1) Becker-Stephenson working with Tom Dart said the associates arrests were within a couple of months, that was 17 months ago. Who squashed that trumpet and why? That squashing tells me that even Tom Dart was most likely unaware of Deep Quarry at that time. Things are very much different now but the results are still of a negative nature unless Tom Dart/Becker Stephenson changes historical negative events into a successful quest of enough truths to put away mass murderers.
2) It is my current understanding that Tom Dart is looking primarily for Gacy victims. Tom Dart himself told me in an email about a year ago to contact Dupage with my information. I tried but backed down too quickly. I should have pushed harder a year ago.
3) Dupage has finally stated that they will look into my story, but only very recently have they stated this.
So I repeat my question: Is there an open investigation into the Deep Quarry mass murderers?
Or is Illinois at a crossroads whereupon negative disclosure in regards to a 35 year old non investigated mass murder site may transcend itself into countless lawsuits? A tangential concern may be. Are there provisions to protect the state from lawsuits stemming from loopholed (or worse) non investigations from 3 decades ago? If the answer to that is no, then cash strapped Illinois may be at an impasse.
4) My own private question is; Am I a troublesome whistleblower slowing down the police or am I a witness who wants to put away mass murderers? The answer to that is I simply don’t know, and they aren’t going to tell me either, that much is obvious.
5) This growing ugly expensive quagmire is going to take some time to figure out from 9 different angles and in the end it may be dropped, so I need to relax, accept what happens and hopefully stop posting. What was addicting has become frustratingly painful.
STUCK IN SNEERING SILENCE.
I have satisfied the 5 W’s of WHO, WHAT, WHERE, WHY AND WHEN, and even added a few HOW’s, yet the major media sits there doing nothing, slapping me in the face, their circular silence calling me a liar, despite my many pleas. What fool would possibly make up all that I have posted? What fool would contend controversial fiction for 30+ years and counting? What fool would challenge the most powerful figures in Illinois government?
I am no fool.
I am no liar.
One thing is for certain, there are members of the major media and members of our government whose silence has labeled them fools beyond a shadow of a doubt. If it were not for this website this information, this true story would be condemned to an unjust final ending by the Fools Club of Plenty. Thank You Mr. Maloney for allowing me to post on your website when others, the finest fools in America, have deleted my postings.
Felix Francis (Frank) Marcus, age 56 – Deep Quarry witness. deepquarry@yahoo.com
Sorry, too used to calling you None now. Have another suggestion as well. If you have other evidence, might I suggest copying them and mailing them to either trusted friends or relatives out of state. This way if one day someone shows up at your doorstep and takes everything, they wont be able to cross state lines to get the copies, and that is if they know where they went. Id hate for all that hard work to be taken by an investigator then burried and never followed up on. Take care.
I have a very close relative who said some of the same things you did. The police have proven themselves completely untrustworthy in this matter. I wonder if they will ever be honest about the laws they broke during these secret cleanups? Mass murder is taking a back seat to dirty filthy politics. Protecting old political screwups is not what we pay taxes for. Allowing a lifetime of freedom to mass murderers so that politicians dont get in trouble for breaking the law is not what we pay taxes for.
I finally got an answer from someone in the major media. I am hoping he does somrthing with this true story. I am hoping to talk to him soon.
Please keep in mind that I am still at 99% certainty regarding my Rossi internet identification but not 100% because pictures are 2D images and can distort. I need to actually see this guy in person to know for sure. The NY guy looks just like him in most pictures but not all pictures. I am very surprised that the police never helped me in identifying any of those guys. If I took a chance and chose the wrong guy who looks similar from an internet photo then that really screws things up for me and makes me look really bad. Does anyone have links to old photos of the Michael J. Rossi who worked for Gacy?
Come to think of it, what good would old pictures of Rossi do for me. I already know what he looked like from the years of avoiding him at the quarry.
As I’ve said before, I know that the Mike Rossi of NY is not the same as the thug that worked with Gacy…….The thug still lives in Illinois. I am 100% certain of this.
Hi Snoopy, thanks for your help. Imagine that….possibly 2 Michael J. Rossi’s the same age, same sexual orientation and same looks, or at least the same looks as to how I would imagine him to look after all these years. That was quite a curve ball. I really need to see new pics of the 2 remaining thugs. One video I just viewed showed thug artwork with a guy in a white T shirt and dark pants. Coincidently I have many references and artwork showing exactly this attire on the thugs at Deep Quarry. I really hope the police don’t keep covering this up. What other reports or data can you show me that you are using to determine the thugs guilt and where they presently reside? Thanks.
I have been so intrigued with this case for too long, I came upon this yesterday! Very interesting! http://johnwaynegacynews.com/2013/02/24/vito-marzullos-grandson-and-gacy-the-biggest-open-secret-in-chicago-history/
That johnwaynegacynews clip about Vito Marzullo is on the same website that has thrice deleted my postings, that’s one of the websites that treats me like I’m a liar. You would think after 30 years I would get used to the doubters, but I don’t. There are times it kills me. Imagine going to a therapist with my unbelievable story that goes on and on and on, they would lock me up. If I had one Gacy story I would be better off but with so many encounters and sightings, I have reached a saturation point of doubt and just think, I am not even telling you guys everything. Being strictly an eyewitness, I am not an investigator in this Gacy matter for several reasons.
Is it Rossi they are talking about as being the grandson?
Did this Vito guy have mob connections?
That link Snoopy posted, pretty much sums up what I was saying all along. Mob related cleanup to hide evidence.
This is from Vito Marzullo’s obit.
“Mr. Marzullo is survived by his wife, Letizia; two sons, William V. and Robert; four daughters, Helen Dimperio, Adeline Maiorano, Ann DeMaria and Eleanore Masciola; 19 grandchildren and 7 great-grandchildren.”
For Rossi’s mom to show up as the story goes she would most likely need to have a Rossi last name, there are no Rossi names shown in that obit. None of the women have a Marzullo name so they are all married.
Unless Rossi’s mom was remarried then he is not Marzullo’s grandkid.
So who was the Marzullo grandkid? Could it be Dimperio, Maiorano, DeMaria or Masciola? or was his mom remarried?
Mike Rossi of NY was a high school principal,
I’m pretty sure that Gacy’s pal didn’t even complete high school. You have to look at the Mike Rossi who still lives in the Chgo. suburbs. He is the one that was associated with Gacy.
Well that makes me look real bad doesn’t it! I should not have taken a chance on a lookalike with 30 years of age progression.
The only reason that you were looking at the Mike Rossi of NY, is because of his being a pedophile. At first I thought the same thing. After looking deeper though, I discovered that it wasn’t him. he does look a lot like him, but it is not him. I can see why you were very certain. The real thug is still around though..
Snoopy,
How do you know that the NY Rossi looks like
the Chicago Rossi?
Sorry snoopy…but you are wrong. I am an eyewitness and I can say this..You are at a severe disadvantage looking at false history created by a criminal government….witness stand ANYONE? I am the only one who WANTS to take the witness stand,,,the rest are cowards and fabricators of false history.
https://app.photobucket.com/u/deepquarry?sort=3&page=1
https://app.photobucket.com/u/stratacube?sort=3&o=1
Since reading the accounts of Becker/Stephenson regarding associates of Gacy, it’s obvious that the authorities know about the thugs,but they don’t appear to be doing anything, or so it seems.I remember seeing a picture of Rossi some time ago, and I can certainly see why you were convinced that it was the guy from NY.
Thanks Snoopy. What accounts? Where do I find these Becker-Stephenson accounts? The only 2 articles I have seen are Frank Mains article from 17 months ago and one similar article from NY 17 months ago. I assumed the whole thing was squashed for a multitude of reasons but mostly no communication from the big boys. That’s another wrong assumption on my part. No wonder they don’t respond to my emails. This day has been quite educational. Maybe it’s time for me to back off and watch the pros do their job. This is getting really interesting. I just stick to artwork for awhile.
I was referring to their findings regarding possible accomplices….There were several pieces featured on WGN. I’m sure if you go to the WGN site you’ll find the videos in the archives.I am quite sure they were referring to Rossi, I remember during the trial that Mike Rossi testified about his association with Gacy,,and though they don’t mention him by name on WGN,you know that’s who they are referring to.
This is a link to some of the pieces:
When was this video made? The fact that there was a lotof evidence showing Gacy didnt kill all those children, and the fact they still put him to death with this evidence, makes one wonder who up in the chain who could of granted him an appeal, wanted him dead instead. Gacy could of talked, but didnt too. Something must of kept him in check despite being on death row. He even believed he wasnt going to be executed, which means quite possibly oneof those higher ups had falsely informed him just to keep him quiet that he was going to be set free and let him die before he had the chance to talk.
Hi Xanthor,
you said “makes one wonder who up in the chain who could of granted him an appeal, wanted him dead instead”
I am glad you said that, people need to dwell on those words, and the who and the why because they greatly substantiate the specifics of my allegations.
-the Deep Quarry witness
I listened to the entire above clip from Chicago.
The first story in the clip said that an individual who was a friends of Gacy’s worked in a drug store weeks before Nelson disappeared. There was a story months ago from a woman who said that Gacy and Rossi had worked in a drug store in a town where she worked. Some parts of her story jived with the first story in the news clip. The first story in the clip ended that the suspect is now living in another state. That clip was from Chicago, therefore it is very likely that Rossi is the one who is living in another state. Now back to the second story, it is not clear who this second story is referring to when they said that one of those guys is now once again living in the Chicago area, therefore they may not be talking about Rossi. It seems that nobody here on shadowreports really knows for certain where Rossi is or who the other bad guys are. I wonder if the cops really know where Rossi is or where any of those other guys are? If any of them are in the mob maybe the cops don’t want to find them. Are the cops looking at getting the associates or not, its not real clear?
“we could never find any strong evidence” ????
It looks like Mr. Sullivan may have been kept in the dark as well. This statement reeks of obstruction of justice on a grand scale.
They had everything they needed but choose the wrong path.
I just saw a video of a young Gacy victim, and in it I saw a guy named Robert Gilroy. I am going to describe one of the men accosted on that ledge by Cram and Rossi. I saw this accosting from across the tiny lake so there was some distance involved.
This young man I saw was wearing a short beige, almost white windbreaker, almost like a “members only” jacket with side pockets, he was wearing slim dark pants, he was at least 3 inches taller than Cram, He was quite thin, even thinner than Cram. I saw him from the side standing in the accosting area of the inescapable ledge. He had hair like Gilroy did on the video that I saw. It could have been Gilroy. I just sent this information to the police a few minutes ago.
I don’t see anything new that points to the police looking at the associates being at Deep Quarry. Everything I see is months old, even a year old. Whoever unleashed mass murderers upon society now takes no responsibility for it, instead they invoke the blue code of silence, they lean on political favoritism and hope for the silence of “responsible journalism” to protect them. Sorry to those in the public sector who are trying, and try as you may, it is my belief that all of your “quests for truth” is a dead end road of filth and lies, but in the end they may get Rossi and the third abductor anyway. Felix Francis Marcus – Deep Quarry mass murder eyewitness.
HELP PLEASE.
In that Vito Marzullo newstory above is it Rossi they are talking about as being the grandson?
Did this Vito guy have mob connections?
Although the story doesn’t name him, I think that’s who they’re talking about.
As for Grandpa Vito,he seemed to have connections.
This was taken from the story:
“One of the two committed suicide in 2001. The other, Marzullo’s grandson, has been arrested for violent crimes over the years, most recently in 2001 in an FBI probe of mafia- and union-related incidents involving movie theaters around the country. He now lives in a northwest suburb of Chicago.”
The one who committed suicide would be Cram. The other, although not named, has to be Rossi, as the link below shows
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Fn8jAAAAIBAJ&sjid=h2QFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1388,5475032&dq=michael-rossi+gacy&hl=en
That incident mentioned above occurred during the summer. Most of my encounters with those guys were also during the summer. They were both a little younger than me. During the late 70’s our off school hours coincided because Cram and Rossi were students as was I. This could be one reason why I ran into them at the quarry so often. Did Rossi attend college? no guessing please.
On phone so will reply to rest later. None, the so called bodies found in the river, were any of them by chance ones you saw at deep quarry? Would explain the ones not found under the house and supposedly in the river.
Hi Xanthor, you asked “were any of them by chance ones you saw at Deep Quarry?
I don’t know but what a great question. As I have stated many times, I can literally describe many of the victims I saw, what they wore, where I last saw them prone or otherwise, I can even draw up some of their faces. I have offered to do this many times for the police but they never respond. It’s fairly obvious that if the police were to willingly ask for that type of information, it could endanger the perception of their ethics in both 1979 and the present.
They are still in full denial mode at the present time.
Connected with the Chicago mob? That changes everything. I am not going back to Chicago anytime soon, maybe never. You can’t fight the mob. You can’t fight the state of Illinois. You can’t fight city hall, and you especially can’t do it from Canada. This would have been easier if the NY guy was the right Rossi, but since he’s not, this is a lose-lose-lose for Illinois. It looks like Rossi may have won, so did the politicians who screwed up in 1979. The biggest losers are the citizens. Sorry to all those I pissed off, now I understand. I’m outta here, I’m not taking on the mob.
I can’t blame you. It could be why nothing has happened with the other aspects of the case.
If anything happens to me by Rossi or his buddies, it is the fault of former Shrf. Richard Doria, former Shrf. Richard Elrod, former Gov. Thompson. If those guys had done their job in 1979 I would not have to worry about mass murderers running around wanting to silence me. The police don’t even have to protect me because those 3 stooges will claim that the Deep Quarry mass murders never happened. Go to hell idiots. Zaruba and Dart will never fix this because those 3 stooges will claim it never happened.
Tomorrow I will delete my 2 email accounts. Nobody sends me anything anyway. That midnight shovel got a ton of press, I got nothing
What is “midnight shovel”?
Might find this interesting None. This the Rossi your talking about? Looks like hes been arrested last year.
http://www.bustedmugshots.com/illinois/chicago/michael-rossi/58385701
Hi Xanthor, that is not the guy I saw in the quarry. This guy has the wrong face and is just a tad too young. But thanks anyway.
That guy above isn’t even close.
The mass murdering thug in the quarry looked exactly like a younger version of the Michael J. Rossi from NY. Exactly to the tee, not just similar, but exactly in every way, only younger. I really need to see him in person though to make my final decision. Could there really be 2 identical Rossi’s?
WITNESS STAND ANYBODY? I’m ready.
Felix Francis Marcus
I just deleted my deepquarry@yahoo email account and my TurboQ account.
The Imageshack links are next.
I was talking about Gacys midnight Miami shovel that was all over the press.
Sorry been dealing with another matter thats present day.not 35 years ago and for somestupid reason, the police here have not arrested the suspect despite many witnesses. I used to use a daycare and one day my kids started coming home with bruses and with what little they said, had pointed fingers at their school so assumed it was bullying. When police investigated last year, the daycare refused to testify and dropped the kids from their center. It was only a few months ago my kids started talking more and it was found out that most of the brusing was not school bullying, but worse. The day care owner had been duct taping children in her bedroom and beating them with shoes and other items and police are doing nothing, which is why I feel for None, because hes going through same thing and like I told him before, that the cleanup was probably mob related to cover up what their children had done. None, I wouldnt worry too much because what you saw on the ledge could not be that person. Only because from what you have told me, the bodies were dumped into that lake, andtheoen above was dug out from Gacys home. As far as Mobs go, new ones come and go. If you recall there was a huge cleanup back inthe 80s in NY of mobs and crooked police. It takes time, but they are put down sooner or later. Far as police not doing anything here, its because they are worried of being sued. They should be more worried of being sued for not doing their job. I had no intention of suing them until they ignored this.
None, did you do this post 8 months ago? If not, someone else has mentioned deep quarry as well. Might be the other witness you have been looking for. http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/02/10/attorneys-believe-gacy-had-accomplices/
Yes, I am surprised it wasn’t deleted 8 months ago.
Wow, now I know why people complained of spam. Not your fault None, the system sends a reply link for ever reply if checked, sowhen I replied to 11 of your posts, others replied generating a tun of notices. Anyway, wanted to say that despite you being a witness and all the work you did got you nothing, but someone else got an hour interview was most likely ahigher up using your info and many others combined the evidence to shed light on whats been happening. Your looking for deep quarry witnesses, others who may have been there may not even know the place as deep quarry. BTW, one of your killers might have gotten away with being an accomplace, but from what I been reading, once a kiler always, and seems they killed someone and have been recently jailed being guilty as charged. Mom or not, they are jailed so now it boils down to what. one left?
I restarted pushing my eyewitness accounts to the police in the spring of 2010. There must be some people who have been looking into this a lot longer than that. I should have pushed harder in 1980 when I had the opportunity. Maybe my rejection by the police in regards to my eyewitness accounts 30+ years ago were meant to be. Maybe God was protecting me from really bad people.
I hate to say it,but it was probably best you let it rest back then while the ones bad in power lost it. Use to be years back movie stars got free rain, but now a days any one crosses the line is brought up on charges. I greave for the ones who lost their lives, but least their all but one behind bars for now.
But what a waste of time and effort. Maybe 4 people have responded to me over the course of an entire year. At this rate it will only take another 70,000,000 more years to get to the rest of the country.
You know they did the investigation on the Miami property without telling anyone after they promised they would? The best way to get support none, Id say would be to start posting links to this arrticle and ask those who come here to do the same. Sooner or later someones gonna see whose another witness, or the right authority.
That’s a good idea Xanthor, starting last year I used to post anonymously until a few months ago, under assumed names and even my own actual web names quite often, trying to build interest and find more witnesses. It didn’t work though.
I don’t know how many thugs are actually left from Deep Quarry or any of the other areas that the government and the private investigators are looking at. I am only a witness and not an investigator in any Gacy matter, if I was I would not have waited all these years to push so hard.
Was looking up the serial killer Gacy was copycatting The Candyman. The things the Candyman had done Gacy didnt even come close to. If you look up US serial killers in the US, you will notice moment one serialkiller was put out of comission another resumed in their place and I dont mean put to death either. Quite a few had their brains researched for anomolies but none never found. If it is in the brain, its DNA level as if something got switched on. As with the Candyman, the police failed even more so ignoring the signs. Had the Candyman not turned on his accomplaces, he could of gone longer breaking Gacys record. Children today still disapear and could actually be prevented with use of GPS inplant that can be removed later yet many said it goes against ones freedom. Wonder how many families of missing children who were against gps are thinking again on if they had used it. Not onlywould it have saved children, it could help catch murders like Gacyand Candyman today.
Hi Xanthor, interesting that Gacy was a copycat. I saw Gacy at the quarry first in the early to mid seventies when Cram and Rossi were too young to kill yet. The gravesites (shown on my thugmaps) were there before I ever started seeing Cram and Rossi at that quarry accosting people on that L-ledge and hearing all the water splashbooms. Eventually I saw Gacy on the L-ledge with the boys just a few times. In fact one of the largest splashbooms I heard occurred when Gacys car was there and Cram and Rossi were already up by the road. I think Gacy packed more rocks onto his victims than the boys did based on the loudness of the splashbooms I heard when Gacy was around. But it showed that he may have learned from them on how to drop the victims in the water. The waterbooms from the boys were quieter while Gacys water drop booms were much louder.- the Deep Quarry witness.
I am changing my name to Link from now on.
I am actually thankful to the holder of this web site who has shared this great article at here.
Snoopy and Xanthor, are you guys cops?
I am not a cop,do not even know any cops. I am a 69 year old retired school teacher. I have followed this case from day 1.There were many things that didn’t make sense to me back then, and now. I just did a lot of reading, since retiring.
I didn’t follow it at all, not one bit, and then after the one high ranking cop shot down my Gacy encounters in 1980 I lost all interest in talking to the police until the spring of 2010 whereupon I received the same exact wordage of “there were no reports”. Those same words from 5 different sources 30 years apart. It seemed suspicious. That’s when I started to fight back.
I must have told over 100 people, and most likely a LOT more, throughout the late 70’s and throughout the entire 80’s about some of these incidents, which is why I shouldn’t care anymore about hiding the one incident. I know people who went over there. I know people who asked me to take them there, but I never did. My interest was not strong enough at the time, and then I moved away and lost even more interest. -The Deep Quarry witness.
What about the media? There have been many different facets to this case that were brought up by various people over the years.I can’t recall all of them, but I don’t think that the authorities were ever involved in investigating them. Several sources have come forward with info that pointed to accomplices. I’m sure they went to the media with it.
I don’t know anything about the media and other people, but the media sure won’t listen to me. It is absolutely insulting. The crooks are winning. If the police pretend forever that the secret cleanups never happened it is all the people they are insulting with the fool proof ruse of 1979, that is how they seem to view us, as fools to be rused.
I don’t know who you’ve ever contacted as far as the media is concerned, but it sure does seem that a lot of info has fallen on deaf ears. I can certainly understand how frustrating it would be. I’m frustrated, and I didn’t even experience what you, and others have.
A much stronger worded version of my post on May 14, 2013 at 9:22 am was actually sent to Cook and Dupage County police where it did not fall upon deaf ears. What happened was it fell upon angry ears. Only an insane maniac would possibly make all that up!
I still do not trust the police though, some people think that they may still railroad me in an attempt to prove their ethics. It’s quite frightening to go up against the high and mighty who have great track records, all I have is honesty on my side with a little proof.
Snoopy, you mentioned frustration and the experiences that others have had. This is a very good point when judging the illegality of this situation.
-How many others with important information regarding multiple mass murderers have been sent away UNDOCUMENTED over 30 years?
-Where else did the illegally operating government clean up over the last 30 years UNDOCUMENTED?
Snoopy,
1. Did you ever investigate or read how deep the mob connection was with Gacy or his associates?
2. Did you ever investigate or read if any deals with the law were ever swung by Gacy or his associates?
The only info that I read regarding any mob connections was from the article that I posted a link to on June 16……http://johnwaynegacynews.com/2013/02/24/vito-marzullos-grandson-and-gacy-the-biggest-open-secret-in-chicago-history/
Xanthor, Snoopy,
I was hoping that at least one of you was a cop because that would mean that at least one public employee was actually looking at my allegations instead of the embarrassed old time public officials with way too much clout on their hands ordering that I be strung along for a solid 3 years now, even before Tom Dart publicly stated that he would reopen the Gacy investigation. What they did to me in the spring of 2010 can only be called lying, there is no other word for it. Not even decades old elision tactics applied anymore, only lying. Maybe someday I will talk more about it.
Witness stand anyone?
-Felix Francis Marcus, the Deep Quarry witness.
If I were a cop, and knew the higherups were trying to coverup murderers, I would have sent copies of the evidence out of district, maybe even the whitehouse to let them know what was going on. They made a huge error letting Gacy near Mrs Cotter. Im sure they would be even less thrilled if they found out an ex DA abused his status to hide a possible murderer that not only bragged about other dead boddies, but had already been arrested on assult charges and could be continuing Gacy’s old habbit of killing children for 35 or more years to date.
Xanthor, Who is the ex DA you are talking about?
Xanthor, Who is the ex DA? The new DA’s will soon be guilty of shovelling the manure.
Vito Marzullo’s who is now dead is whom I’m refering to. He was the one who put the wrench in the works that prevented Cram and Rossi from being interigated further years back when Gacy was arested. He got them both out to prevent the other from slipping up and accidentaly showing their involvement. As he slipped later on, its no wonder why he comited suicide. Rossi since then had been arrested on severak ocasions for assult and battery. He got off easy from one of them. The others, I have not seen the outcome anywhere. The one that died, unless Im confusing him with someone else who tried giving a dog away while drunk admitted he knew of a spot where lots of bodies were located not refering to Gacy’s house.
Hi Xanthor, you are so right when you say that they could be continuing Gacy’s old habbit of killing children for 35 or more years. Cram and Rossi were not only killing young men their own age during the late 70’s, I saw a young woman, and middle aged looking guys also being kidnapped and accosted on the ledge of death, which always resulted in motionless visitors, and/or splashbooms and then Cram and Rossi walking out of the quarry alone, up to the parking area. Those victims were not even Gacys M.O. I have reason to believe that Cram did continue killing which I sent to the police a couple of months ago. I doubt if the police will look into this mid 1980 Cram event though, thus far they won’t talk to me except to tell me that they will get back to me later, which they never do, at least not yet. I have no idea what they are doing about Rossi and friends.
I am NOT SAYING that the current police are corrupt, but they are following in the not-so-secret-anymore footsteps of those public officials who were seriously breaking the law since 1979 and counting.
Whether the current police and state’s attorneys want to hear this or not, currently pretending legality of the 1979 situation or currently pretending that the Deep Quarry mass murderer cleanup never happened is still quite possibly:
Obstruction of Justice,
Accessory after the Fact,
Misprision of Felony which requires active concealment of a known felony.
And eventually it may become a Conspiracy Against the People at some point.
All of this can be avoided with honesty in government.
Felix Francis Marcus- Deep Quarry 1970’s mass murder witness.
http://imageshack.us/user/turboquark
I am keeping my eyewitness imageshack links artwork I have made because it is wrong to allow corruption to win. If you go to the above imageshack link to look at the artwork, look at the pictures on the bottom half of the screen and right click the 3 bars in the lower right hand corner for direct links to the artwork.
WITNESS STAND ANYONE?
-Felix Francis Marcus, Deep Quarry mass murder witness.
http://imageshack.us/f/208/seeingrossicramdropping.png/
The imageshack links are not working correctly, some of them keep getting dropped off, then I have to to reload them, so some of them have temporary doubles. There seems to be 2 versions of imageshack which are fighting each other.
Try clicking onto this link above and use the blue arrows at the top of the image frame to go through them all.
Why are my most incriminating imageshack artwork links being quickly removed on a regular basis????
What is going on here?
Is this coincidence or is somebody doing this to me and why?
Does anyone have any knowledge of another free website besides imageshack to download all my artwork on? It could be the imageshack censors and the complainers that keeps kicking my artwork off. The quest for truth is a bumpy road.
You might need to find a hosting company. Imageshack has set off my virus checker many a times plus I noticed they constantly keep changing their layout.
It is not just Illinois that is living with the illegal secret cleanup(s) that Illinois did in 1979-1980, it is any state, anywhere that Gacy or his associates have gone which is even Canada; all of these places could be affected by what Illinois did. These places need to band together and force Illinois to fix this. Illinois is being selfish in this matter. There are no valid reasons to protect mass murderers.
Im suprised with all the construction done by him and his accomplaces no one bothered to go though the records and check any properties they laid cement out for. The only have checked Miama, no where else.
They have secretly checked other places. Like the remote place that Gacy took me to. There was a cement truck out there doing work inside the foul smelling building that Gacy took me into 1 week after I reported the incident in the spring of 2010. A few months before Tom Dart reopens his Gacy investigation. I will explain that story later……. maybe.
WITNESS STAND ANYONE- I am ready whenever the politicians are.
Felix Francis Marcus- Deep Quarry mass murder witness.
The favorite words of criminals.
THEY’LL NEVER PROVE A THING!
THEY’LL NEVER SUSPECT A THING!
– The Illinois government 1979 – ?
WITNESS STAND ANYONE?
-Felix Francis Marcus, Deep Quarry mass murder witness.
The cement truck I was talking about was at that building sometime around the end of June 2010.
If I ask the police why, I am fairly certain that they will only continue lying to me. The way the police handled it in 2010 was more like 1979.
This is what else they did in 2010: I went along with them thinking that they were just checking me out as a possible suspect.
1) I highly suspect that they obviously and amateurishly tapped a phone conversation I had in which they baited this person to call me after police questioning.
2) I highly suspect that they obviously and amateurishly hijacked my computer several times that I was using to send emails on a regular basis to the police. They screwed up my computer quite badly once when I sent them an email, causing looping piggyback file creation of security files and the files I was sending them, I have never seen anything like that in my life. I watched for about 10 minutes until the computer stopped chugging (because I suspected what they were doing and I have nothing to hide) and then informed them that they screwed up my computer. I then had to fix the computer. The following couple emails were better but still slowed my computer down to a crawl. I stop sending them emails for a few weeks after that because it wasn’t worth having my computer hijacked and screwed up by these guys besides I was upset that they were still treating me like a suspect and not a witness. After a few weeks the emails were OK and did not do the looping anymore.
3) Never answering my repeated question of whether or not I am a suspect despite asking 4 separate people several times over 2 years. I would not be a secret suspect if they properly did their job in 1979 instead of breaking the law.
4) After ignoring my messages and having secretaries make excuses for almost 2 months I went back over to the place whereupon getting out of my car I was met by someone who worked there. I acted suspicious because I knew I shouldn’t be there and I had no idea who this guy really was. I wanted to ask him about the cement truck from a month before but couldn’t muster up the courage. He asked me to sign in at the main building (the same building Gacy took me into. I still can’t go near that building because it freaks me out too much). When I told him I was not going to sign in because I was leaving right away, he looked at my license plates while I left, in less than 10 minutes the police called me on the phone acting and pretending like they were going to finally start looking at my story. They gave me a line of calculated crap that was designed to strictly appease me while keeping me at bay.
5) What happened to me in the spring and summer of 2010 in my opinion only reinforces the fact that Tom Dart is not on a quest for truth. He is on a mission to find cold case victims and I believe that he will overlook the laws broken by the 1979 police and corrupt politicians, in fact in think he is being ordered to emulate and continue hiding the 1979 secret cleanup plan. These 1979 know-it-all’s need to justify their actions to the present day police and have instructed the present day police to believe that they are part of something special, something supposedly good for the people, but in reality it is just the opposite. It is a stupid plan that has given mass murderers a lifetime of freedom.
6) They never got in touch with me after claiming they would and I eventually got the brush off. Dupage County still hasn’t gotten back in touch with me either after saying they would.
7) I had a retired cop predict 3 years ago that the police will never look into my story, I thought he was wrong but thus far he is correct. In this case honesty has no place in Illinois politics, while mass murderers have been laughing at Illinois for 30 years with their lifetime get out of jail free cards.
WITNESS STAND ANYONE- I’m ready when the politicians are.
BACK TO THE PREDICTIONS OF THE RETIRED OFFICER 39 MONTHS AGO.
Let’s go back to the police officer mentioned above who predicted the outcome of my 2010 disclosure to the police. This retired police officer also predicted and informed me 39 months ago that the police will tell me one thing and then do another, that they will never tell me anything, and that all they will do is file papers, and do absolutely nothing. At that time, I did not believe this. I did not believe that our government is that underhanded to ignore mass murderers running around, but that was 39 months ago and still I wait. I am starting to think he was right. Time will tell.
What this officer said, who served in the 1970’s and 1980’s eras, highlights several issues that should seriously concern the public. The mentality of elaborately deceiving the public, and the governments polishing of politicians public images through illegal methods was spoken with such matter-of-factness and nonchalance that it should concern all those who hear these words. Of utmost concern is that the current administrations I am dealing with seem to be completely on board with such unethical trickery. The police have a tough job, no doubt about it, but for the police to listen to the politicians self serving orders is nonsense. Who do these politicians think they are to mandate double standards regarding important matters of the law? These are people who openly and with grand announcements imprison others for the very acts that they themselves commit, which is bamboozling the public for personal gain, in this case political gain and the pursuit of glory. Only the most corrupt of nations allow their government to run amuck, unchallenged, without due process, without accountability to the people, by allowing criminals to remain free while pretending that the highest governmental ethics are in place, when in actuality their ethics and morals are selfishly driven and their lawless actions illegal, while criminals laugh and enjoy the freedom necessary to murder others. Civilized nations do not forsake criminality, especially murder…………especially COLD BLOODED MASS MURDER…………… in exchange for clean political records of the self appointed few and their reign of uncontested filthy power. Illinois appears to be leading a third world charge into the next generation. Could this cover-up happen in current times? I believe the answer is yes, the Deep Quarry continuing cover-up is proof enough that cover-ups will continue because the entire state of Illinois, along with the perhaps unknowing indifference of NY and the federal government are doing nothing, or so it seems, to correct this blind accidental stupidity,……..”absolutely nothing” as predicted by a retired police officer 39 months ago…and counting.
WITNESS STAND ANYONE, I’m ready when the politicians are.
Felix Francis Marcus- Deep Quarry mass murder witness
SKETCHES OF THE VICTIMS FACES WILL HELP MY STORY.
I told the police about 3 months ago that I would NOT sketch the faces of the victims who I was close enough to see clearly, because as I told them, I did not want to cause pain to the families of the victims who may recognize their murdered loved ones. As my support for the police dwindles due to the belief that they are doing absolutely nothing I am rethinking this. If the politicians are willing to roll the dice on the hopes that I cannot do this. Keep in mind that I have already sketched up (turboquark imageshack) the face of the third abductor I saw only one time. I have already sketched up the face of the officer I spoke to in 1980 I saw only one time. I have sketched and described in detail the appearance and clothing of the victims who I have already artworked. I have drawn up detailed maps and described in detail the areas involved. I have already identified a guy from countless photos with a common name. Please do not think for one second that I cannot possibly sketch up the faces and the attire of someone I saw only one time over 3 decades ago because I can, AND I WILL BUT ONLY IF the police ultimately decide OR ARE ORDERED to forever pretend that this did not happen thereby enabling some of the most prolific mass murderers in history to remain free. The government will have a lot of explaining to do if people start to recognize their murdered loved ones from my face sketches. As for the sketches I have already made, perhaps there already are people who can ID those guys. The police can certainly identify those guys. For several reasons it makes me nervous and concerned for my well being that I can do this, so I don’t know if I will or not. What a shame that my fear of the government is as great as my fear of the Deep Quarry mass murderers.
THE MEDIA.
The government also needs to realize that this story has received no publicity yet due to extreme disbelief. This extreme disbelief will ultimately work against the government who better come to realize that the greater the intensity of disbelief is, the more intense the fallout will be when the media and public begins to realize that I am right. The media, including the owner of this website and his friends are obviously cautiously skeptical regarding my story. With all the “thank you’s” in the main story above I must speculate that the website owner and his friends are somewhat on the side of the police. To this I say; do what you must, but please do not put a lot of stock into what they say. As the retired police officer said 39 months ago; “the police will tell you one thing and then go do another, they will never tell you what they are really doing”. So to the media people who do not believe me enough; You may think that you are “on the inside with the police” but you may not be on the inside as much as you think you are. By being manipulated by the police and the politicians who boss them around, you are indirectly being duped and used to their advantage as a servile pawn, manipulated with their calculated elision and your responsible journalism to indirectly keep the politicians clean and shiny. You wait for proof from those who secretly view you, and use you, as servile pawns.
OVERZEALOUS PUBLIC EMPLOYEES TRYING TO PLEASE THE BOSS.
The overzealousness of the public employees trying to keep this mass murder site covered up, through the blue code of silence and political favoritism are the biggest part of the problem. I wonder how they feel, being treated like subordinate secondary subservient servile underlings, being ordered to lie, disregard their oaths, and to criminally omit the truth, by a small handful of guys who could not have screwed up any more if they had tried. Being ordered to forego any morals of their own. To these people I say; You cannot have your morals dictated by those with so many skeletons in their closets. You cannot borrow your morals from those who have none to lend. You are walking on the wrong side of the law when you continue to follow orders that require breaking the law.
Sound like Long island in the 60s and 70s. Would have been happy to say this type of thing doesnt happen there anymore but 9/11 is a huge example of many ignoring the signs and warnings. If you even knew half of what I know oud be suprised, but I cant post that here.
I SENT THIS LETTER TO THE POLICE A FEW MONTHS AGO. It shows a possible reason why I feel that David F. Cram continued killing.
“I am not 100% certain of this person I am going to mention below was David F. Cram but it does warrant looking into. I have reason to believe that Cram did continue killing. About 1987 there was a group of people who played softball every weekend at Countryside Elementary School in Barrington, IL. This group of about 20 people consisted mostly but not entirely of people from one section of Carpentersville near the area where Cram had lived when he had supposedly committed suicide. Many of these people had attended Barrington High School together. I had one friend from this area of Carpentersville and was staying with someone not too far away myself at that time. I played softball with them several times that year and my friend had big parties where some members of this tight knit group would come over. One of the regular members of this group looked like Cram, about 40 pounds heavier and longer hair, always dressed in black jeans, just like the guy in the quarry often did. This guy was a strange prick and always gave me a hard time so I avoided him. One day about 1987, one of the people in that tight knit group had supposedly committed suicide. It was being investigated as being suspicious at that time. He was my friends sisters boyfriend, taking everyone by surprise. Nobody in that group could believe it. I wonder if the guy in that group really was David F. Cram and Cram murdered him. I could find out the names if I really wanted too. “
That was a letter I sent to the police. Of course they never responded.
In addition to this there was a flurry of suicides in the woods just prior to Crams supposed suicide. All of these reasons and more could be checked out to see if Cram was still murdering people. But because Cram is dead and the police won’t do anything to implicate fellow police officers or powerful old politicians for wrongdoing by letting Cram off the hook for life, the police will probably never look into this.
Witness stand anybody?
Felix Francis Marcus- Deep Quarry mass murder witness.
JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS.
Subject: The “just following orders” mindset of the public employees who take orders from the politicians of 1979 (and now) regarding the Deep Quarry mass murder cover-up.
Please explain the justification and the humanity of your mindset of “ just following orders” to God when you get there for lawlessness is next to Godlessness.
The families of past and future murdered victims of Cram, Rossi and possibly the third abductor are just going to have to deal with your decisions to protect your old bosses interests and the state of Illinois’ interests aren’t they?
Stuck in the middle between 7 shades of wrong and nowhere to go except down the road of truth, a road you have turned your back on, a road to a just and moral life which you have also turned your back on. You are on a path of self destruction when you choose to protect the wrongs which turns a blind eye to the endangered innocent, the innocent you took an oath to protect.
Witness stand anyone? I fear no truths.
Felix Francis Marcus -Deep Quarry mass murder witness
41 MONTHS NOW AND STILL NOTHING.
What cowardly filth thou art whence beknownst thy shady folly, in tallt silence you defendeth not your snobbery tongues. Be damned to the pyres of eternal condemnation you foolish arses for you belongeth not amongst the honest. Dost go screweth thee to thine own self with thy bloodstained hands thou hideth overmany. Selfishly disgusting.
Witness stand anyone? I fear no truths!
-Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murders.
“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at time of challenge and controversy”
-Martin Luther King, Jr.-
I got this quote at the bottom of an unrelated email today. I thought it was quite appropriate in regards to many aspects of this case.
None/link, have you ever tried writing the white house about this? Might be time to overstep the ones not doing anything and let them know. Reason being, FBI should be doing something, but wont unless the police do something first, but write the white house about the murders, and evidence, have a feeling this could end up being blown open wide. If and when you write them, put facts and evidence, not what you feel or think might be, they need toknow facts, like that club you handed in. The cleanup. Its definately mob related, but dont let that stop you. These mobs are more like kid gangs that died out. Im sure you had to be reading of the court case with the rifleman and so forth. Hes in jail, and many others. Sorry I havent been around for a while. Been dealing with the daycare I used for 5 years that watches children by duct taping them in her bedroom while she goes shopping. As I work for country, the police wernt bothering to do much until I spoke to the judge and this is getting blown wideopen as we speak. Some bigger things happened as well but cant talk about them as its a new investigation and posting it now could warn the criminals involved. Once its made public, Ill tell you about it. But take my advice, write them.
I don’t know to what legal lengths Illinois accidently went to in assisting mass murderers Mr. Rossi and Mr. Cram in their quest to keep a low profile. If our government provided the great actors Mr. Rossi and Mr. Cram with help similar to a witness protection program then they may have had all the lifetime protection they needed.
I worked with the Mike Rossi of Rock Tavern, NY. He is a pedophile, as he was convicted…he plead guilty. I cannot believe that he was a killer too though. The coincidences are quite astounding. Is there a picture availableof Rossi from the 70’s? I’m also pretty sure that the NY Rossi grew up in NY. In addition, he worked in education for more than 30 years.
Perhaps Mr. Rossi would be interested in suing me for supposed slander?
How about it? There is a slight chance I may see this man in person and realize, possibly by height alone that he is not one of the men I saw in that quarry dozens of times.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE POLICE.
In this case, corruption and its cousin, “the misuse of the politically ordered blue code of silence” is a cold blooded killers best friend. Legally protected corruption is one of the most powerful criminal forces in the US, it is 100% illegal while appearing 100% legal. Sadly, Illinois takes the trophy and has written the unwritten book on “full legal criminality”. Until Illinois arrests the men who mass murdered at that quarry I have no reason to believe otherwise. In this matter, a few bad apples in government are absolutely destroying the perception of the average honest moral majority of policemen. But then again, this is not about the police, this is about the politicians who boss them around, many of whom are completely unqualified to do so, with way too many conflicts of interest. Now these political fools have 33 years of blood on their hands. I actually feel sorry for them, having to hide their blood stained hands and all. Saint Peter will be the first to see those blood stained hands. He won’t be fooled.
Deep Quarry is just one reason why this country would benefit from limited separation of police and politicians, for it would discourage the dangling carrot of corruption that has tainted this great civilization.
Witness stand anyone?
-Felix Francis Marcus, Deep Quarry mass murder eyewitness.
Hi Xanthor,
That’s a great idea, but who will the White House believe I wonder? A nobody witness or political powerhouses with every possible award? The sheer weight of their history will crush my story. I fear that they are infallible now, made so by too much falsely earned confetti in this Gacy matter.
RAHM EMANUEL’S APOLOGY.
There were a few stories in the news today about 70’s and 80’s Chicago cops making false arrests, recent lawsuits stemming from police misconduct, and police torture. They said Mayor Daley even knew about the torture. So much was said that Mayor Rahm Emanuel apologized for the past police misconduct. Let me tell you that back in the 70’s and the early 80’s the cops were to be avoided, just like I said in several earlier posts there were certain police that were blooming idiots. Young people got nowhere back then when going to the police. What young people usually got back then was hassled. It is no wonder that people stayed away from the police back then, myself included.
What in the hell was the matter with those guys back then?
They weren’t idiots, but they were out of control and dangerously corrupt. “It was the 70’s” and “it was the 80’s” is not an excuse for what they did. In my areas where I hung out I blame a lot of it on Sheriff Doria and Sheriff Elrod for running such corrupt departments. Those guys were in charge when they arrogantly and accidently screwed up the Gacy investigation. Sheriff Doria and Sheriff Elrod need to apologize to the people for NOT investigating the mass murders at Deep Quarry and concealing them from the public. Former Gov. Thompson needs to apologize to the people as well because he was in charge of the big picture back then. Things are not better with Mr. Emanuel’s apology regarding past police misconduct. Cook County, Dupage County and even Illinois itself is just as corrupt as ever, and just as screwed up as ever, as long as Illinois continues to pretend that the Deep Quarry mass murders did not happen, thereby making themselves a mass murderer’s best friend. I can’t help but wonder if some of the police were friends with mass murderers Cram and Rossi. The whole situation defies logic.
“NOBODY WOULD…”
Anyone who starts a sentence with the words
“Nobody would…”
just stop right there and shut your trap.
-Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to the Deep Quarry mass murders.
This is an amazing piece of writing. I only know the basics of this case and l found the entire thing fascinating, sad, and scary. Thank you Chris. Do you have any other writing that I can check out?
Was reading up on reports from police contacting families who refused to come foward, and one of the cases scares the heck out of me because some of the unadentified bodies may not be from the area, but from either mob needing themknocked off of parents purposely connected with gacy wanting an unwanted child killed. Remember he hired children to work for him which means its quite possible some maybe even out of state were either already dead or sent to be killed.
THE QUEST FOR TRUTH. I am getting fed up.
To the disbelievers;
1) Go to Michael J. Rossi, particularly the man who I believe lives in Rock Tavern NY, (or the look alike one that some of you claim still lives in Chicago ) and tell him about the witness to his mass murders and ask him to have his lawyer sue me. The police have failed us and I am fed up.
2) Go to the following people below and PUBLICLY ask them YES OR NO :
Were there human remains found in what is now known as Deep Quarry in rural Wayne township while John Wayne Gacy was in custody? I have no idea who knows what but this situation is unacceptable.
a) Former Sheriff of Dupage County Richard Doria.
b) Former Sheriff of Cook County Richard Elrod.
c) Former Gov. of Illinois James Thompson.
d) Former Lead Gacy Investigators.
e) Sheriff of Dupage County John Zaruba.
f) Sheriff of Cook County Tom Dart.
g) Former Des Plaines, Hanover Park, Bartlett, Wayne and Carol Stream Chiefs of Police.
h) Gacy prosecutor Mr. Sullivan.
3) Illinois is guilty of improprieties against We the people, We the victims, We the taxpayers who unknowingly and without recourse financed these secret mass murder cleanups by shortsighted know it all’s …We financed this illegal cesspool of political puke that Illinois continues to selfishly hide from the citizens that indirectly has protected mass murderers for life.
Illinois has basically devalued the human lives who were lost at Deep Quarry, and they have done so in order to simply keep clean political records and not get in trouble for the laws that the government broke. To say that they had no evidence is absolute rubbish.
What those blind accidental idiots had was “NO INVESTIGATION”.
I now repeat once again, 2 questions to the guys in power in 1979 listed above:
-What did Illinois and Dupage County do with the victims who were found at the above mentioned Deep Quarry?
-Why did Illinois and Dupage County NOT investigate these mass murders and hide them from the public?
I fear no truths. Witness stand anyone?
Felix Francis Marcus, age 56, witness to the Deep Quarry mass murders.
Does anyone have a current or past photo of the look alike Michael J. Rossi NOT the NY guy but the Chicago guy that several of you claim lives in Chicago? I am particularly interested in a profile picture. I need to see for myself how similar he looks. Can anyone think of a reason why the police would not allow a witness to view photos of a mass murderer he can identify?
(42 months)
I have given them enough chance to come clean.
What did Illinois and Dupage County do with the victims who were found at the above mentioned Deep Quarry?
This is what they did with some of them;
Some of the victims I saw on the 2 ledges of deaths looked like victims that wound up at John Wayne Gacys home. They just won’t admit it. I asked them from day one if this is what they did. Some of the 16 that Gacy said he did not kill were killed by Cram and Rossi, some or all at Deep Quarry. Good job Illinois, real god job! This is why they won’t admit what they did.
What damn fools did sneak about, hiding their souls without a doubt.
I fear no truths. Witness stand anyone?
Felix Francis Marcus, age 56, witness to the Deep Quarry mass murders.
THE WEAKER LINKS
I really want to avoid doing this, and it will be some time yet but if I have to I will drag the non-elected public employees involved in this political cesspool through the muds of honesty. They have more to lose than a small handful of elected officials who screwed up on the grandest scale possible. These are the people who have indirectly chosen to “just follow orders” thereby protecting the interests of ALL THE LAWBREAKERS on both sides of the law. These are the soldiers of corruption who are just following orders, they are innocent yet guilty by allowing themselves to be forced into questionable unethical activities.
Question: When the law ceases to follow the law, does it cease to be “the law”?
The Declaration of Independence (directly) and the 2nd amendment (loosely) has something to say about that predicament.
I fear no truths. Witness stand anyone?
Felix Francis Marcus, age 56, witness to the Deep Quarry mass murders.
JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS (41 months a still nothing)
To the career Officers and the Sheriffs who have turned a blind eye to the endangered innocent and their families;
Here is a typical police oath, need I dissect this for you as a reference to what you have been greedily instructed to trample upon by continuing to protect government treachery and the mass murderers they indirectly protect? The people do not take this betrayal lightly. Should you continue to proceed down this path you will ultimately pay a steep price with the destruction of your personal honor. Your name, honor, legacy and life’s work is all you leave behind in this world. It is not one or 2 items that you trample upon but the oath in its complete entirety.
THE OATH;
On my honor, I will never betray my badge, my integrity, my character, or the public trust. I will always have the courage to hold myself and others accountable for our actions. I will always uphold the constitution, my community, and the agency I serve.
You are the soldiers who must fix this, you are the only soldiers who can.
THIS IS WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED IN 1980.
I found this excerpt from Indiana law (I would assume Illinois has a similar policy)
There is a general method for removing all public officials by impeachment. In the case of Sheriffs and their deputies, they may be removed from office for official misconduct. This usually requires a willful and malicious failure to perform official duties or conduct which makes the officer unfit to perform his duties. There are four specific grounds for removal from office:
(1) Conviction of a felony while in office.
(2) Charging and collecting illegal fees for services.
(3) Refusal or neglect to perform official duties
(4) Voluntary intoxication on duty or habitual intoxication.
In the case of conviction for felony, removal from office is automatic upon pronouncement of judgment. In order to remove an officer on the other three grounds, it is necessary for the grand jury to present an accusation in writing and serve it on the defendant officer. The officer has 10 days to answer the accusation in the proper court. Failure to appear may cause the court to proceed in the absence of the defendant. The accusation will be decided in a jury trial using the same procedure as for a misdemeanor. If convicted on the accusation, the officer will be removed from office.
Perhaps the 1979 Sheriffs have something to say in their defense to my unofficial allegations? Such as WHO PUT THEM UP TO THIS! I find it impossible to believe that Dupage County, Cook County and the IL Gov’s office had no knowledge of the mass murdered victims I witnessed disappear at Deep Quarry. I can describe a dozen of them in detail and where they were dropped into the water.
I fear no truths. Witness stand anyone?
Felix Francis Marcus, age 56, disbelieved eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murders.
HELP NEEDED.
Does anyone have a current or past photo of the look alike Michael J. Rossi NOT the NY guy but the Chicago guy that several of you claim lives in Chicago? I am particularly interested in a profile picture. I need to see for myself how similar he looks. Can anyone think of a reason why the police would not allow a witness to view photos of a mass murderer he can identify?
42 MONTHS AND STILL NOTHING.
The apple of corruption doesn’t fall far from the tree does it?
“ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL”
Tell me self appointed government aristocrats, are you so superior in judgment that common laws are no longer required for your aristocracy in this Deep Quarry mass murder cover up matter?
We bow to our humble heads to kiss your arses, strange how your arses smell like noses, the many noses of your loyal subjects.
“ONE MAN CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE”
Tell me Deep Quarry cover up self appointed aristocrats, how has your self proclaimed magnificence rendered these immortal words obsolete under your ruling thumbs?
Once again we bow to our humble heads to kiss your arses, strange how your arses smell like noses, the many noses of your loyal subjects. Ah yes, that must the secret of your success. A momentous mentoring occasion indeed.
“ALL MEN ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL”
“ONE MAN CANNOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE”
There now, is that better, have those re-words fixed YOUR problem?
I fear no truths, yet I now fear an untruthful government.
Witness stand anyone?
Felix Francis Marcus, age 56, disbelieved eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murders.
(42 months)
CONSEQUENCES OF ARROGANCE.
Dangerously defective governmental situations such the “no reports ruse” of Deep Quarry and Sunrise Lake has gravely outlined that “We the people” have at present been rendered a powerless diminishing republic as Illinois edges closer and closer to a authoritarian state that our misguided wayward government have somehow managed to create through gross mismanagement on an electoral political platform feigning both Republican and Democratic virtues which simply don’t exist. I don’t know if there is another state government in the USA that passes the baton of arrogant corruption from elected generation to elected generation like Illinois does. After 42 months of nothing; it is now my belief that some of these men be labeled as ignorant menaces to society, those who realize what they are doing through pomposity be labeled as an absolute danger to society. Our forefathers would be ashamed of what absolute sovereignty our Illinois government has recklessly imposed upon its free people; the system of checks and balances has come and gone as the government has tipped all powers in their favor. A corrupt electoral government will inevitably destroy the free will of ALL the unwilling and will NOT be sustainable. The full consequences of their arrogance has yet to come.
Link, hope you dont mine me still calling you None? Name sort of sticks and feel uncomfortable using your real name anyway. I think I might have a connection to the Rossi in NY which would be same Rossi your talking about. Right before or after gacy’s arrest, did he have a baby girl about a year old or under? If so then its him, and the neighbors who moved out fast after Gacys arrest. His wife was a big coke head, and didnt know this at the time till I got older. I was about 3 waiting at their house for their dughter to come home from daycare. The mom had a toy fisherprice barn on a high shelf I was told not to touch. Im sure you know what a child will do at that age when not being watched and told not to touch something? Thats exactly what I did. I used a few chairs to climb up and get the barn while the mom was on phone and got the toy down. More like it, I helped it fall off the shelf. Anyway, I could not get the bard doors to open so forced them when something broke and a bunch of clumpy white powder came out. The only reason I remember this is because I managed to taste some of it which made my mouth go numb and moments later her mom came in and forced me to the sink using the sprayer to clean off my hands and washed my mouth out, which scared the hell out of me, thought she was trying to kill me. Kicked me out of the house and told me not to come back. Month l;ater, they moved.
Xanthor and Link, Rossi of NY is NOT the Rossi who was associated with Gacy.
Even the media has stated that the Rossi who was Gacy’s buddy still lives in the Chicago area.
Snoopy, can you please point me to photos of this Chicago Rossi. I would like to see the similarities for myself while I still have a chance. Is it possible that he lives in 2 places? For many years I have lived in 2 places at the same time, maybe he does too? Could this great actor Rossi, who has deep Chicago ties, often be in Chicago and often be elsewhere? His ties in Chicago were deep enough to get him off the hook and make him one of the luckiest mass murderers ever in history. He and Cram, and maybe the third abductor should have faced the same fate as Gacy. All 4 of those evil bastards were at that quarry. The police only investigated Gacy at that time.
The third abductor (I have a slight idea of his identity) also lives in Chicago if he is the man I think he is.
Thanks
Snoopy,
I can’t find that anything that states the name “Rossi” as being the man in Chicago? They are eluding to his name. Could the media possibly be referring to someone else? I know that the man who I call the third abductor lives in Chicago if he is the man I think he is, however I am only 10% certain of his true identity. It is a shame that the 1979 police in charge of the Gacy investigation were so damn filthy. It is an even bigger shame that the current police are covering up this 1979 unethical police behavior for reasons unknown to me.
How can you be so certain that it is Rossi that they are talking about?
Link, I think you will find out a lot more about Rossi by reading a couple of books……..John Wayne Gacy: Defending a Monster by Sam L. Amirante , and Killer Clown by Terry Sullivan.
As I’ve said before, I’ve done quite a bit of reading,and can’t recall exactly where all the info came from. Hope that helps.
Ok thanks Snoopy, I believe that may help. I saw a small clip on the internet from Sam A. and how he felt that Cram and Rossi were innocent kids, it really got under my skin how those actors fooled everyone. I will challenge Rossi or the third abductor anytime, wherever they are, should they press charges against me for supposed slander. I always questioned why the FBI, or the state, or a county hot shot was not placed in charge of the investigation: instead the 3 stooges arrogantly placed a controllable figurehead in that spot. Three stooges who fancied themselves so superior in judgment that common laws did not apply to them. The 3 stooges orchestrated a masterpiece of stupidity and corruption in which the citizens have paid with their precious blood. Now meet the new stooges, same as the old stooges, who will now protect the sheer stupidity of the arrogant Illinois government. As you can see I have lost all my respect for the upper tiers of the Illinois government. 42 months ago I was a good respectful citizen, today I am one of the biggest anti-government people you will ever meet. Those jackasses will never do anything except protect themselves at the expense of the citizens blood. They are too drunk with arrogance to realize just how evil they truly are.
Just to clarify, I have no problem with the police or any public employee, my problem lies directly with the people who boss the police around, many of whom are completely unqualified to do so, with way too many conflicts of interest. In the matter of secret crime scene cleanups the system is not perfect…. it is not even close, it is outright dangerous.
-Felix Francis Marcus
Xanthor, was this event in NY or Chicago?
Xanthor, Where did this event take place when you were young? Was it NY or Chicago?
I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DO THIS. THIS IS A JOB FOR THE POLICE.
Mr. Rossi could always sue me for supposed slander. There is a slight chance I may see this identical looking man in person and realize, possibly by height alone that he is not one of the men I saw in that quarry dozens of times. I will ALWAYS admit when I am wrong.
I agree that pictures can lie, but as of now, on the internet he looks identical in every way.What kind of a system is this anyway? What is REALLY going on here?
Link, I will try to find the article that posted a pic of him….I remember seeing it a couple of years ago online. As to this Rossi having 2 residences, I would have to disagree. From everything I’ve read in the past, he appears to have lived in the Chgo area all this time. He also spent some time in prison. I also recall that he was not well educated, which would show that NY Rossi is a different person.Mike Rossi of NY was a high school principal.
Hi Snoopy,
Any help pointing to Rossi’s lack of formal education is also greatly appreciated, as well as photos of course. As for the media; we all know the probability and complexities of faulty media don’t we? Common sense always dictates that any story is only as good as it’s TRUE source and intent.
CONSEQUENCES OF ARROGANCE.
MY GREATEST FEAR.
My greatest fear is retaliation by too many secret criminals who the irresponsible embarrassed government has secretly pardoned….criminals who nobody can prosecute, will prosecute or even publicly suspect. A laundry list as long as the list below could only have been created (at the taxpayer’s expense) by those nearly insane with arrogance……protected from public disclosure by the positively embarrassed……possibly further protected from public disclosure by dangerous unknown individuals who present my greatest fear of retaliation,
an event which would go unnoticed by the media, followed by a sigh of relief by those corrupt in government, and a sigh of relief by the mass murderers this silent crew of accidental idiots are protecting.
When I wonder why the media and lawyers won’t respond to me, all I have to do is look at this unbelievable list of filth.
Obstruction of justice.
Tampering with evidence.
Falsifying death records.
Contempt.
Criminal elision.
Accessories during.. (multiple)
Accessories after… (multiple)
Conspiracy of silence against the good people.
Illegal misconduct.
Coercion.
Complicity.
Court fraud.
Misprision of felony.
Failure to perform civic duty.
Intention failure to publicly disclose or conduct a mass murder investigation.
Aiding and embedding mass murderers in their quest for freedom.
Etc,etc,
Q; Is the embarrassed government actually doing something after 42 months of silence?
Witness stand anyone? Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to mass murder.
CONSEQUENCES OF ARROGANCE
LETS JUST CUT TO THE CHASE SHALL WE !
Mr. Richard Doria,
Mr. Richard Elrod,
Mr. James Thompson,
All 3 of you men has positions of high authority in 1979. In the interests of preserving the historical integrity of your legacies gentlemen it would be prudent that you publicly answer this one question lest you fall prey to public scrutiny?
Your questions YES OR NO only please;
(the answer cannot be “no reports”)
Q) There were 16 victims found in Gacy’s residence of which he stated that he had nothing to do with; were any of you aware of any decision to plant victims from elsewhere at Gacy’s home prior to his trial?
Thank You,
Felix Francis Marcus, age 56, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murders.
Witness stand anyone? I fear no truths.
CONSEQUENCES OF ARROGANCE.
LET’S PUT THIS FILTH INTO PERSPECTIVE SHALL WE!
Rod Blogevich; bribes
George Ryan; bribes.
Dan Walker; bank fraud.
Otto Kerner; bribes
William Stratton; tax charges.
Paul Powell; $800,000 stashed in shoe boxes.
Jess Jackson Jr.; financial improprieties
Dan Rostenkowski ;corruption
Mel Reynolds ;sexual misconduct with minor.
William Scott; tax fraud
All of the above were relatively smalltime compared to this record contender below;
Enter the 1979 Gacy investigation team leaders and their bosses, and maybe their boss’s bosses,
of COURSE this went to the top, who in the hell are they kidding?
Does anyone actually believe that only a SMALL handful of individuals could have possibly BUILT THIS MANMADE MOUNTAIN OF FILTH!
Obstruction of justice.
Tampering with evidence.
Falsifying death records.
Contempt.
Criminal elision.
Planting evidence.
Accessories during.. (multiple)
Accessories after… (multiple)
Conspiracy of silence against the good people.
Conspiracy, complex
Illegal misconduct.
Coercion.
Complicity.
Court fraud.
Misprision of felony.
Failure to perform civic duty.
Intention failure to publicly disclose or conduct a mass murder investigation.
Aiding and embedding mass murderers in their quest for freedom.
Misuse of the Blue Code of Silence.
Kangaroo court.
What WAS the punishment? or What IS the punishment?
-ABSOLUTELY NONE, if fact just the contrary:
Awards, book deals, movie deals, speeches, political glory, judgeships, eternal pardons, precious media support, etc.
All while Illinois just keeps on whistling away. Safety in numbers baby!
Be very very careful career minded Illinois government people.
You better choose the right side.
MAKE THE WRONG MOVE NOW and you may wind up on the uglybus headed up to the big house.
Witness stand anyone?
Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness.
CONSEQUENCES OF ARROGANCE.
LET’S PUT THIS FILTH INTO PERSPECTIVE SHALL WE.
PART 2
Take a look at the FBI’s most wanted lists, past and present, and you will find that almost all of the criminals on the list are, or were, actually LESS criminal than Gacys associates. The associates were the worst of the worst (and maybe some of them still are) and Illinois, NY, the feds, Tom Dart, John Zaruba, or the FBI will not so much as lift one finger to deposition ONE potential law breaking governmental screw up who brought us these secret cleanups to get to the bottom of this. What does this tell us????
Witness stand anyone?
Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness.
CONSEQUENCES OF ARROGANCE.
RIVER OF FILTH.
With Illinois silently defending through pretending that nothing happened at Deep Quarry; our arrogant government has created a master plan of corruption that has shown future generations of government employees that it is perfectly acceptable to break the law in procedural ways just as long as you can get away with it. Not only does our government look the other way, as Illinois is currently doing, but they essentially REWARD those who break the law in such a manner and masterfully get away with it. These wayward idiots don’t even seem to care that they gave lifetime get out of jail free cards to some of the worst mass murderers in history, this is the pinnacle of corruption at the grandest heights of audacity with the greatest insult to the safety of its citizens imaginable. This is reckless endangerment via misguidance by the gods of filth.
As the growing number of government workers increase due to gradual socialism we will eventually reach a point where we will literally have an enormous number of government “secret criminals” all getting away with whatever they can get away with, following in the footsteps of their seemingly successful mentors who have perfected public deception. I have no idea what to even call such a dysfunctional society but I know that it has got to contradict our laws and parallels unimaginable third world sociology. This type of a wrongfully mentored government cannot possibly get a good grip on rounding up the even more dangerous real criminals. Why can’t these people, who serve as our mentors see that what they are doing is extremely dangerous to our future.
Mr. Dart and Mr. Zaruba need to stop listening to these scrambling nitwits and start arresting people.
The river of filth has been dredged far too deep… for far too long.
Witness stand anyone? I fear no truths.
Felix Francis Marcus, age 56, disbelieved eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murders.
CONSEQUENCES OF ARROGANCE
IMPEACHMENT RECOMMENDATIONS IN 6 MONTHS UNLESS…
Deep Quarry’s insurmountable lawless deception; inexcusable when condoned by the highest levels of our government serves no benefit to the free citizens of Illinois; the upper tiers of the criminal law branch of the Illinois government; embarrassingly driven to a new low point of corruptive misadventure deeply beckons for the people to FORCE UPON the government a new era of checks and balances. Unchecked arrogance is dictatorial and a direct contradiction to both the basic and the complex laws of civilized society. In the last 42 months these lawless lawmen have proven that the arrogant tend to deny their own arrogance; it is circular behavior, it is legally protected corruption, it’s dangerous and apparently it cannot be fixed by those currently in power. For the recipients who lost their lives in Deep Quarry at the hands of both Gacy and his associates it is the absolute government insult. I personally move for impeachment should they continue this denial of their misconduct at Deep Quarry, thereby aiding mass murderers in their quest for freedom. They foolishly believe that there is safety in numbers, but in reality they have achieved only stupidity in numbers.
From our Declaration of Independence;
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
Our government has trampled upon every word of this document and others as well.
-They have appointed themselves superior in judgment and treat “we the people” as “unequal”.
-They have “derived their powers” from behind closed doors, unfairly dictating lawlessness to subordinates, orders which are absolutely not “to the consent of the governed”, a condition of which they must be fully aware of, or else they would discuss them with the public.
-They have become extremely “destructive to these ends”, and in fact outright dangerous.
-They have become apathetic to “we the people” who put them there in the first place.
-They have removed all the citizen’s rights “to alter” the system, feigning apathetic public gestures at best.
-They have become overbearing, omnipotent and arrogantly dangerous to our “safety and happiness”.
-Quote from the Declaration. “Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury”
(Despite 42 months of requests they APPEAR TO DO nothing)
The politicians deserve no civil kinship amongst the citizens as long as they continue to practice treachery against us. Their arrogance alone in the matter of Deep Quarry should suffice as hardship of burden against the honest people of Illinois and beckons for an undignified removal of their command should they continue to choose political favoritism over the citizens they swore to protect. It’s been 34 long filthy years since they pulled this asinine stunt. My personal opinion is that our hopelessly arrogant government believes that the people are powerless and nothing will ever happen. When we look at the recent reports of the new developments regarding Gacy accomplices; NOWHERE does it state that the police are actually doing anything, these developments ALL come from the private sector who will “meet with the police later”. It is my own personal belief that the government is on a mission to find cold case victims only and that any findings will be attributed to Gacy alone. The consequences of their arrogance is yet to come, the people will have their day.
The government’s 34 year persistent deceptive conceit in the Deep Quarry matter has trampled upon every known major law document of this country with misbehavior that serves no benefit to civilized humanity. We live in a country founded by honesty, dumfounded in dishonesty.
Their shameful trampling upon society with their Deep Quarry dangerous ruse must be exposed…must be remedied… for the disgraceful mockery that they have made of the entire system. The politicians shameful borrowing and ordering of the Blue Code of Silence is tragic, a code that draws it’s only “parallel of misuse” to the organized crime codes of the ”Mafioso Omerta”. What a shameful misuse of a shameful borrowed code by our politicians.
Our government has discovered an Eternal Fountain of Filth for their own personal needs ….adding on to it filthy brick by filthy brick, ingloriously steeped in dishonorable tradition …a priceless emergency scapegoat system for bumbling egotists that serves no practical purpose to “We the people”. Our politicians have taken this once great constitutional republic that the just and moral people of the USA have created for them and unconstitutionally trampled upon it with lawless reckless abandon. If our government continues to the protect the mass murderers I WITNESSED at Deep Quarry then impeachment recommendations in 6 months will be justifiable and well deserved.
I lost all my compassion because nobody in government will do anything. I documented almost everything on this website to protect myself from future railroading because lets face it, with a laundry list that long, there must be at least one guy out there who would love to teach me a lesson.
Felix Francis Marcus.- eyewitness
HELP REQUEST, LOOKING FOR AN OLD ARTICLE.
Several years ago I read a story by a reporter who interviewed Des Plaines detectives who probably talked too much that he met at a local bar. The reporter went on to say toward the end of the story that the police were reluctant to pin certain additional murders at that time on John Wayne Gacy despite suspicion of Gacys involvement these additional murders included 2 women and some older guys. I would like to use the freedom of information act to find paperwork on those murders to see if the woman and her super tall companion were 2 of the victims who I saw at the quarry. The info may be tampered with though as proven by the governments damn stupidity with the other Deep Quarry victims. The woman was a short young attractive well dressed woman who I described in great detail with her tall young well dressed male companion. I described them in great detail in postings of mine from earlier in the year and are also shown in 2 pieces of my eyewitness artwork. These detectives who probably talked too much also told the reporter that one of the 2 main witnesses from the trial who talked about the crawlspace incident had moved east right after the trial. I contend that this man may be the NY Rossi. The detectives also stated that one of the main witnesses stayed in the area, who I contend was the Chicago Cram. I am hoping to find this article but am unable to do so. I can’t remember if it was on the internet or printed. If anyone remembers this article it would be helpful to substantiate my story that the police arrogantly covered up the Deep Quarry mass murders I witnessed. I have nothing against the police who followed orders, my beef is with the people in charge who arrogantly and secretly ordered the secret clean up of Deep Quarry and who knows where else.
Witness stand anyone? I fear no truths yet I fear an untruthful government.
Felix Francis Marcus- eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murders.
WHY IS NOTHING BEING DONE WITH MY STORY?
Too many claimed events for the media and the public to believe?
1) To the disbelievers of my multiple stories due to the factor of “too many claimed events”,
Please temporarily allow yourselves the liberty of placing yourself in the position of the devil’s advocate. A such please realize that if 6 degrees of separation exist worldwide then certainly a far smaller degree would exist in an area as small as the Northwest suburbs of Chicago. Every single multiple encounter with Gacy, Cram, Rossi and the third abductor ALL occurred within this exact small area. Some people say that it is a small world, and I now say that it is even smaller when you tend to remember the “strange” people. For over 10 years I lived within one mile of Cram, had common acquaintances who were all “big party people” as were the both of us, additionally we were close in age. As for the third abductor, if he is the man I think he is (10% chance Bill S.), our crossings in the 1990’s were simply a matter of chance.
———–
(For the police) Too many claimed events resulting in my own suspicion perhaps?
2) To the 5 authorities who will not answer my question of whether or not I am a secret suspect, and who quite amateurishly tapped my phone and computer, the same rule of “less than 6 degrees of separation” would apply. The fact that this secret suspicion upon me even occurred, and the fact that our state government, the ever DISGUSTING protectors of 1979 corruption, will not investigate the true nature of my stories, I am completely justified in my name calling. To all the dishonest people who caused this fiasco in 1979 here are my 2 middle fingers with plenty of gusto. To those who want to continue hiding this government crime, for putting me in this position of being a secret suspect, and for not helping me locate the murderers who I witnessed at Deep Quarry, for lying to me, all which recklessly protects mass murderers and endangers the citizens, including myself, here is a well deserved third middle FINGER supersized with EVEN MORE gusto.
——
Not properly identifying myself to the media?
3)Before I disclosed my actual birth name to the disbelieving media, I used my grandfathers name in correspondence with prospective media people. This old English surname that I used for anonymity, more common and much older than the media who won’t respond to me might think, should not childishly be used as a determining factor in their INCORRECT assessment of my believability. The use of my actual birth name, Felix Francis Marcus which fortunately appears to be undocumented on the internet, should not be used as a factor when ascertaining my believability. The media certainly interviewed a few anonymous people in the past but sure picked a fine time and a WRONG TIME to be cautious with my story. I need some anonymity because the police will not protect me from something they can’t find any reports of. Good job 1979 guys, real good job of breaking a record number of laws and getting away with it.
Dealing with corruption is one thing, but dealing with corruption that can get you killed is third world stupidity, the calling card of an uncultured society….. Illinois; the last bastion of uncivilized America.
I need to go away and cool off for awhile. All I do anymore is rant and rave on here anyway.
Witness stand anyone? I fear no truths yet I fear an untruthful government.
Felix Francis Marcus (link and none posts)- eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murders.
WELL WELL WELL,
There are now 2 more major websites that are no longer pulling my postings. I am sorry to all the law enforcement people who want to keep covering up these late 1970’s mass murders I witnessed however the government really needs to stop breaking laws by intentionally looking the other way. They need to live by the same laws we do.
There are no valid reasons to protect mass murderers, if those in the government disagree, here is my email deepquarry@yahoo.com
Felix Francis Marcus- age 56, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murders
How could I take so long?
Why would I take so long?
Because memories beget memories, once remembered never forgotten.
But mostly, I was duped…we were all duped.
CONSEQUENCES OF ARROGANCE.
A COWARDICE SOCIETY.
Take any human, and call them a mass murderer, and watch them fight.
Take any human, and call them a filthy protector of mass murderers, and watch them fight.
Where is the fight, the proclamations of justifiable innocence, the inner cries of deep mental wounds?
Take any mass murderer and call him human, and watch the innocent die.
What have you criminals created that causes such enormous eternal cowardice amongst your peers who are also your victims as well?
Witness stand anyone? I fear no truths yet I fear an untruthful government.
Felix Francis Marcus- eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murders.
PUBLIC PETITION.
JOHN WAYNE GACY AND ASSOCIATES DUPAGE COUNTY MASS MURDER COVER UP FEDERAL PROBE.
We the undersigned citizens of the United States of America believe in honesty in government and demand to know the truth in regards to the existence of the alleged late 1970’s mass murder site at what is now known as Deep Quarry in Dupage County Illinois. Due to decades of alleged stonewalling by high level Illinois officials with conflicts of interest we demand that a federal probe be launched in order to get to the truth as to the existence of the alleged high victim total of this heinous mass murder site at the aforementioned quarry that was never properly investigated nor disclosed to the public. The true perpetrators are still free.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/alleged-deep-quarry-john-wayne-gacy-and-associates
Witness stand anyone? I fear no truths yet I fear an untruthful government.
Felix Francis Marcus- eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murders.
THE ABOVE PETITION.
IF NEED BE the public petition above will be fine tuned and then eventually mass emailed along with other petitions and a short synopsis of the governmental misadventure of the Deep Quarry continuing saga of Filth and Bullheaded Senseless Denial. Should Mr. Dart, Mr. Zaruba, A. Alvarez and a few others decide to protect the blind accidental stupidity of 1979 which indirectly has protected some of the greatest mass murderers in history I will seek their impeachments through public opinion at the most inopportune time……election time. I will attempt to put “We the people” back onto the frontline of the doctrines of this land displacing the atrocity of our governments backhandedness that has somehow rammed “We the backdoor government” down our throats as the frontline to our basic credo.
Witness stand anyone?
Felix Francis Marcus, age 56- eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murders.
LETTER SENT TO TOM DART AND JOHN ZARUBA RECENTLY.
You know and I know and so does (names removed) that many or all of the 16 victims from Gacys home that Gacy stated he had nothing to do with were victims I observed at Deep Quarry.
What is now known is that I observed these murders solely at the hands of Cram and Rossi with occasionally a little help from Gacy and man who I call the third abductor.
You reopened this investigation well over a year and a half ago.
In my world it is now 42 months since I RE-approached (after the initial failed 1980 attempt) Dupage County on this matter. What happened?
Why is the government still protecting these mass murderers?
Felix Francis Marcus- eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murders.
Good day! Do you use Twitter? I’d like to
follow you if that would be ok. I’m absolutely enjoying your blog and
look forward to new posts.
BACK TO SQUARE ONE.
Received a phone call today from Cook County Police. Apparently accusing Tom Dart of any wrong doing will not solve anything because Dart was only about 10 years old when all this happened.
John Zaruba’s guys told me words to the same effect about Zaruba 3 years ago. Additionally Cook County just told me that I need to go back to Dupage County and try to deal with them again; which has proven to be repeatedly pointless for the last several years. They did suggest another department to try though. I think that Dart and Zaruba are running for the hills, bailing out of this stinking quagmire of 1979 supreme injustice and the blind accidental stupidity that caused it.
We were all victims of this weren’t we? I said it once and I’ll say it again; Mr. Doria, Mr. Elrod and Mr. Thompson, PLEASE fix this, this isn’t 1979 anymore. How many stages of denial are there anyway?
I contend that they must know exactly what happened.
Witness stand anyone?
Felix Francis Marcus, age 56- eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murders.
Mr. Doria, Mr Elrod,
How many victims did you move from Deep Quarry to Gacys home? What did you do with the older guys and the young woman I saw Cram and Rossi abduct onto the ledges of Heath? Gacys original handdrawn map showed 20 to 21 victims. Where did the other 12 to 13 victims come from? What did you do?
Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to mass murder.ruewitns
Mr. Doria, Mr. Elrod, Mr. Thompson, Joe K.,
“All men make mistakes, but a good man yields when he knows his course is wrong, and repairs the evil. The only crime is pride.”
― Sophocles, Antigone
LET US GO BACK TO THE WORDS OF SOPHOCLES FOR A MOMENT.
Mr. Doria, Mr. Elrod, Mr. Thompson,
Despite all your great accomplishments, you are 2400 years behind the times when it comes to admitting the mistakes of your regimes.
With these secret mass murder cleanups that you refuse to admit happened under your watch, you have set “honesty in government” back a considerable number of decades. Our current government tells me that they are at a complete loss of where to start with my allegations so they appear to have given up or so it seems.
Due to the fact that mass murderers are still running around with Illinois “pretending” that nothing happened at Deep Quarry will the following people please take this as a threat to their character references ONLY.
To the current government personnel supposedly investigating my allegations;
Despite your newfound and existing apperception of the Deep Quarry mass murder secret cover-up situation, and regardless of your reluctance to implicate your kindred officers and a few politicians for CONSIDERABLE wrongdoing in 1979, the fact of the matter is YOU ARE ALL ALLOWING at least one of the worst mass murderers in history to remain free and perhaps more mass murderers as well. If you continue this senseless behavior as some of you have for the last 42 months I MAY take it upon myself to “out you” possibly destroying your integrity and credibility. This would also instill a public wonderment of perhaps other misbehaviors. You can circumvent all of this by honoring your oaths and prosecuting the guilty mass murderers at Deep Quarry. If the 1979 regime truly made it impossible to prosecute anyone then as much as I hate to say this, then it is THEY who belong in prison with their bloodstained hands. Let them sit in prison while the mass murderers that they gave lifetime “get out of jail free cards” run free laughing heinously at the broken and stupid system that they irresponsibly created and forced us to live with. Being murdered by lunatics is no light matter, if the government can’t fix what they irresponsibly created than there are some very high profile people who belong in prison. It would be irresponsible of the people to back down on this.
Witness stand anyone? I fear no truths but I fear an untruthful government.
Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to deep Quarry mass murder.
Typo above. Ledges of death. Please see map on imageshack turboquark.
Mr, Doria, Mr. Elrod, Mr. Thompson, Joe K.,
taken from reporters notebook story
“REPORTERS NOTEBOOK: INVESTIGATOR QUESTIONS WHETHER GACY VICTIMS WILL EVER BE IDENTIFIED”
on dmnewsi.com AND CBS NEWS October 12, 2011 story.
There are others documents on the internet stating the same thing.
“The crawl space under Gacy’s home was the focus of Alan Kulovitz’s work in December 1978 through part of January 1979. He says Gacy gave them the impression as many as 21 bodies were beneath the house – and a map was drawn. “At that time, he showed about 20 or 21 (bodies), as to the placement of these different bodies,” Kulovitz said. “And nobody really believed it at first.” They didn’t believe it because investigators didn’t think there could be that many. As it turned out, they found the remains of 33 men and boys, eight still unidentified. “
——————-
So I now ask former Sheriff Richard Doria, former Sheriff and NOW judge Richard Elrod, former Gov. Thompson, and Joe K.;
WHY are there CONFLICTING Gacy hand drawn maps that show differant numbers of dots? It seems to me that your men may have participated in a little embellishment ! Of course I will “never prove a thing” (the favorite words of ……well………criminals)
WHAT DID YOU ILLEGALLY DO AT DEEP QUARRY AND GACYS HOME?
besides break a world record number of laws? Obstruction of justice,Tampering with evidence,falsifying death records, contempt. criminal elision, planting evidence, accessories during.. (multiple), Accessories after… (multiple), conspiracy of silence against the good people, conspiracy, complex, Illegal misconduct. coercion, complicity, court fraud, misprision of felony, failure to perform civic duty, intentional failure to publicly disclose or conduct a mass murder investigation. misuse of the Blue Code of Silence(as if legallity exists!),
kangaroo court. The list is growing almost as fast as your nose is Mr. Pinochios.
THE END RESULT OF WHICH IS; Aiding and embedding mass murderers in their quest for freedom.
What do you have to say for yourselves? You men some of the most highly esteemed men in law. I am certain that you could railroad me to teach me a lesson as to who “runs this state”. You are so powerful that Mr. Dart and Mr. Zaruba seem to be running for the hills with their ears and eyes closed, they are going to allow mass murderers to go free in order to keep you guys out of trouble.
Be sure to thank them, they are your best friends right now, and all of you are the still free Deep Quarry mass murderers best friends whether you admit or not.
witness stand anyone? Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murder.
To the citizens;
I am receiving signs with phone calls that I can’t disclose …yet…that make me believe that there are some very powerful people in our government right now who are going to make a power play against me. After years of unsuccessfully trying to put Rossi and the other guilty associates away I have come to realize that the powerful governmental elite who screwed up are not going to admit what they did with the secret cleanup at Deep Quarry or possibly even multiple secret cleanups of Gacy and associates mass murder sites that they secretly blamed 100% on John Wayne Gacy thereby accidently unleashing mass murderers upon society. It is quite obvious to me that they never even told Gacy himself that they had uncovered the victims at Deep Quarry. They simply yet quite complexly took SOME of the victims I saw and moved them to Gacys home. As for the woman and the older guys I saw their fate is a mystery because the government is too embarrassed or too filthy to admit what they did. They now take no responsibility for the record number of laws that they broke resulting in significant amounts of false history. It is now time for them to prove their ethics and I think I am trouble. These bastards are going to show the world just how “honest” they are. With the illegal blue code of silence and the power of responsible journalism on their side they will have a secret corruption field day of which the journalists may never know or possibly even never believe. The darkest of anti-congrats to all the criminals especially Michael J. Rossi and the third abductor who have shown us that even mass murderers can have more freedom and protection than an honest witness who dares to embarrass the governmental elite. My go to hell list now includes members of our present government and is no longer comprised of people from 1979.
Witness stand anyone?
Felix Francis Marcus, age 56- eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murders.
WARNING; JUSTIFIABLE PROFANITY.
Dupage County told me that they will not guarantee me protection from prosecution (and what I called railroading) if nothing is found. They were very firm about this. I really thought that they would have found something by now and got back to me with honest news. My comfort, if you can call it that, all this time was knowing that I had an honest case, but now I realize just what I am dealing with. The way I see it, I may have essentially been SET UP by these guys whose only interest is to keep Deep Quarry hushed up, AT ANY COST.
AT ANY LAWBREAKING TWISTED AND VILE FILTHY COST! ALL UNDER THE “GUISE OF LEGALITY”.
LET ME BE VERY VERY CLEAR ON THIS. If they arrest me to prove their “supposed innocence”, they will have to beat me senseless to shut me up. I WILL NOT BE RAILROADED AND ROT IN PRISON WHILE MASS MURDERERS WHO I WITNESSED KILL PEOPLE CONTINUE TO RUN FREE. I WILL NOT BE FALSELY ARRESTED WHILE PUNK ASS TWISTED GOVERNMENT FUCKHEADS WHO BROKE LAW AFTER LAW AFTER LAW AFTER LAW PRETEND THAT THEY ARE THE VICTIMS. I WILL NOT STAND FOR IT AND THEY WILL HAVE TO BEAT ME TO A PULP, OR WORSE…TO SHUT ME UP.
THIS COUNTRY DOES NOT BELONG TO THE CRIMINALS.
.
THIS COUNTRY DOES NOT BELONG TO THE DAMNED CRIMINALS IN OUR GOVERNMENT.
THIS COUNTRY DOES NOT BELONG TO THE DAMNEDEST OF ALL CRIMINALS…COLD BLOODED MASS MURDERERS!
SORRY LORD but never in history has profanity been so justified. The ONE commandment that I broke pales in comparison to the twisted filthy ilk of what I am up against.
Witness stand anyone? I fear no truths but I fear an untruthful government.
Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murder.
WARNING; JUSTIFIABLE PROFANITY.
Dupage County told me that they will not guarantee me protection from prosecution (and what I called railroading) if nothing is found. They were very firm about this. I really thought that they would have found something by now and got back to me with honest news. My comfort, if you can call it that, all this time was knowing that I had an honest case, but now I realize just what I am dealing with. The way I see it, I may have essentially been SET UP by these guys whose only interest is to keep Deep Quarry hushed up, AT ANY COST.
AT ANY LAWBREAKING TWISTED AND VILE FILTHY COST! ALL UNDER THE “GUISE OF LEGALITY”.
LET ME BE VERY VERY CLEAR ON THIS. If they arrest me to prove their “supposed innocence”, they will have to beat me senseless to shut me up. I WILL NOT BE RAILROADED AND ROT IN PRISON WHILE MASS MURDERERS WHO I WITNESSED KILL PEOPLE CONTINUE TO RUN FREE. I WILL NOT BE FALSELY ARRESTED WHILE PUNK ASS TWISTED GOVERNMENT FUCKHEADS WHO BROKE LAW AFTER LAW AFTER LAW AFTER LAW PRETEND THAT THEY ARE THE VICTIMS. I WILL NOT STAND FOR IT AND THEY WILL HAVE TO BEAT ME TO A PULP, OR WORSE…TO SHUT ME UP.
THIS COUNTRY DOES NOT BELONG TO THE CRIMINALS.
.
THIS COUNTRY DOES NOT BELONG TO THE DAMNED CRIMINALS IN OUR GOVERNMENT.
THIS COUNTRY DOES NOT BELONG TO THE DAMNEDEST OF ALL CRIMINALS…COLD BLOODED MASS MURDERERS!
SORRY LORD but never in history has profanity been so justified. The ONE commandment that I broke pales in comparison to the twisted filthy ilk of what I am up against.
Witness stand anyone? I fear no truths but I fear an untruthful government.
Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murder.
VERY INTERESTING WEBSITE ENTRIES REGARDING MY 99% CERTAIN ROSSI.
from topix;
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/washingtonville-ny/TBA3496RN2R5MF4BQ/p8
one of the entrys states;
“I went to grade school with Michael Rossi and then ran in to him again in 1977ish when he was working with Gacy in Antioch. At that time I worked at King’s Pharmacy, and Gacy was the contractor building the new pharmacy.”
This supports my contention that the NY Rossi was the guy I saw at the quarry.
Also in that same exact forum there is an Orange County entry that states;
“where is Michal Rossi now that he has submitted his teaching and certifications for administrative positions in new York as part of a plea deal. But he can work in other states that will accept his credentials no one seems to know where he has gone….”
Nobody knows where he has gone?
Wasn’t the NY guy supposed to go to prison?
>
Hi Bluetree,
I hope he is in prison. If he is the guy, which I am 99% certain about, then IL and NY both failed to do their homework….maybe.. just maybe NY is just as embarrassed as IL is. Imagine hiring that guy to work with kids. If he is not in prison then where is he? Has anyone produced an identical looking Chicago Rossi yet?
I am telling you with 100% certainty -Pedophile Mike Rossi of NY, is NOT the same Mike Rossi that associated with Gacy
Snoopy, Could you elaborate please on the 100% certainty part?
>
Hi Bluetree, As I’ve mentioned here before to “link”, I’ve followed this case from day 1, and always felt that Mike Rossi was so much more involved than law enforcement said. So, being intrigued with this, I did a lot of reading. If you do any of the online searches for a “Mike Rossi”, you will find 100’s of people with that name, narrow that down to his age group (mid fifties), and look up criminal background. You will find that the Rossi of the Gacy case still resides in Ill.
Thanks Snoopy, So what do you know for sure about MR at this point, i.e., exact age, city, employment, appearance, etc.? Is there a photo that F. can look at? I apologize if any of this is redundant; I’ve been unable to be here for a while.
>
Then as an eyewitness to dozens of encounters this Chicago Rossi needs to look identical, not just similar, but identical to this NY guy. Someone else on topix thought it was him too. See above. That is 2 eyewitnesses who identified this NY guy as the Gacy guy. Is not pedophilia criminal enough to invoke suspicion? This uncertainty is exactly why Doria, Elrod, and a few others should be indicted. If Dart and Zaruba decide to protect their wayward mentors and mass murderers over the citizens then as much as I hate to say this then perhaps they need to be brought up on charges too. It hurts me to say that because I really like those guys and I think both guys would make a great Governor someday but first they need to bring about an honest conclusion to this Gacy associates matter. Both men have a lot of politics left in the tank , what are they waiting for?
Not just Mike Rossi, but more spciffically Michael J. Rossi, Michael Rossi. M.J. Rossi.And why neccessarily narrow it down by criminal background, David F Cram stayed out of trouble yet I contend that he continued murdering (see earlier postings).
WHEREVER ROSSI IS.
Wherever Rossi is, IL, NY or wherever, the police ABSOLUTELY know where he is, they probably know where all the associates are. This entire ugly fiasco is the absolute pinnacle of corruption and one of the greatest insults ever against the people by our supposed “lawmen” of the criminal law branch of Illinois with the word “criminal” being the defining word. I read a few statements by Joe K. and he stated that he always felt that the associates were involved. So who pushed Joe K. around? Who gave him the title of “lead investigator” but controlled his power? Who made him a potential scapegoat or a puppet while they themselves were slinking around the fringes breaking law after law after law? Joe K. knows exactly who bestowed this “title” upon him. But will he tell us…nope…I doubt it, not with the illegal unethical blue code of silence to protect his former bosses.
In Illinois “common law” or the “people’s court” are no more, for it has been replaced with the Governments version of the law that suits them, and only them and their buddies just fine. They worked so hard, generation after generation, passing the batons of corruptions to achieve this Godlike immortality of pomposity….. so they are not about to give up their thrones. These are our esteemed mentors now for the new guys to learn the trade….AND THEY WILL….. with stars in their misguided eyes. These are our esteemed mentors who have created a waiting list a mile long of those waiting to ascend these lofty thrones. Historically the many lawyers involved in the Gacy trial reads like a WHOS WHO of many, but not all, esteemed pompous arrogant law benders with little regard for the actual law. Many went on to achieve greatness directly as a result of the significant amounts of false history these law breakers conjured up. It seems that clout and corruption go hand in hand in this filthy town, and there seems to be no ending in sight….absolutely none.
Witness stand anyone? I fear no truths, but I fear an untruthful government.
Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murder.
THIS MAY BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR SOME PEOPLE TO BELIEVE….and I would blame them one bit.
It is my opinion that Tom Dart’s men pulled a colossal blunder in 2010, or were victims themselves of another departments colossal blunder shortly after I reapproached the government regarding my Gacy encounters in 2010. There is no other explanation that makes sense.
If the following situation didn’t happen to me…..I probably wouldn’t believe it myself.
In fairness to the current Illinois administrations who pulled this 2010 stunt shown below, there was a short period of time from the spring of 2010 to a few short months afterward whereupon I agreed with the governments covering up and maintaining the secrecy of John Wayne Gacy’s extensive presence around the Shick Road area of Cook and Dupage Counties. Seeing how they briefly tapped my phone at that time they probably know that I was temporarily on their side. That is…. until I figured out the associate’s involvement and sealed my suspicions from Frank Mains Sun Times Becker-Stephenson article. It would appear that the blind accidental stupidity exercised by the LEADERS of the 1979 Gacy investigation team was utilized as a blueprint for a colossal government bad decision of 2010 which once again, provided alibis to some of the worst mass murderers in US history.
The current administration must have believed that they could bring closure to families whilst reassuring that the 1979 NO REPORTS RUSE remained a secret from the public. I cannot think of any other reason that makes sense in this regard.
I have made many many postings related to a deep concern that the senseless denial of the governments lawless law-breaking escapade of protecting and hiding the criminality of the 1979 NO REPORTS RUSE from the public will be foolishly, arrogantly and illegally emulated as a blueprint for future reference by up and coming administrations. After all these lawless lawmen from 1979 are highly esteemed, honored and protected by law. These lawless lawmen know that they are multi-protected as outlined in my many postings and that they may never have the slightest bit of LEGAL suspicion cast upon their seemingly perfect careers; the stretched stories of their accomplishments, awards, and documented history serves as their resume, their proof of honesty and their proof of the highest ethics. Nobody will ever believe that these lawbreakers and law-stretchers created as much false history as I now know they have created.
But alas, Cesar will never punish Cesar when false praise is so easily obtainable and so easily protected by whom else…. but Cesar himself.
To many honest outsiders my eyewitness account must seem more like the conspiracy theory rather than the enormously elaborate eyewitness account that I claim it to be. We all know that once in a while what seems to be a conspiracy theory turns out to be true. I assure everyone that the government has lied to the citizens beyond our wildest expectations. In the 1979 Gacy coverup matter, not only do mass murderers need to be punished but so do some of the government lawbreakers involved who refuse to investigate MASS MURDER and do so solely to keep themselves from getting in trouble for the countless laws that the government broke.
——Below is a copy of a letter sent to several government agencies a very short time ago. My newest recent allegations are simply off the charts and guaranteed to infuriate the current government who simply listened to the wrong people in 2010 and followed the wrong path shortly afterward…..once again…. history has repeated itself.
Witness stand anyone? I fear no truths, but I fear an untruthful government.
Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murder.
Below is a doctored up copy of a letter sent to several government agencies a very short time ago. The names are withheld.
——–
see attachments. (The vile filthy government will not get away with this)
Mr. (name removed),
I will testify that I am quite certain that I saw this man (name removed) shown below murdered around 1978 on what I call the ledge of death by David F. Cram and Michael J. Rossi just before Gacy was caught. I saw him in a waist length maroon colored nylon windbreaker, bright red new looking untucked Tee shirt and new looking dark blue jeans. First he was standing in area H on the map shown below being accosted by Cram and Rossi (area G and F), and then I saw him motionless on the ground with Cram and Rossi circling him. He is one of the victims who I witnessed accosted by Cram and Rossi who did not wind up in Gacys crawlspace as opposed to others who I can also describe in detail as to their appearance and attire. How in the world did this guys remains wind up in (location removed) almost immediately after Illinois relaunched their 2010 investigation and almost immediately after I reapproached the government in regards to Gacy’s extensive presence at Deep Quarry, as well as my Sunrise Lake Gacy encounter and his presence at Mallard Lake?
Is someone in the government STILL creating even MORE FILTHY false history?
This is beyond coincidence. It would appear that once again Illinois law breakers have given MASS MURDERERS another alibi. Some of the worst mass murderers in history are senselessly still being protected simply to keep old time Illinois lawbreaking politicians out of trouble for breaking law after law after law. Will you please arrest Rossi, the third abductor, and whoever else is involved in this? Come on….. how did any of this happen?
Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murders.
https://imageshack.us/user/turboquarkhttps://imageshack.us/user/turboquark
WHY I FEEL THAT THE GUILTY MASS MURDERING ASSOCIATES WILL NEVER BE CHARGED.
My last 2 comment posts were a little confusing and poorly written, so let me put this another way.
In 2010 either Cook County, Dupage County, the state of Illinois, the Feds or combinations of; created EVEN MORE FALSE HISTORY of their own to add to the already enormous stinking dogpile of false history created around 1979 by the irresponsible government. High profile people, in 2010 emulated parts of the late 1970’s John Wayne Gacy NO REPORTS RUSE in which dozens of major laws were broken thereby JOINING the government’s criminality instead of correcting it which in turn provided alibis for some of the worst mass murderers in US history. These lawstretching lawbreakers boxed themselves into a liars corner with nowhere else to go…..it’s a mighty shady corner… where safety in numbers gives these guys a place to go and forces protégés to read press releases under the spotlights of the media they irresponsibly dupe….a corner where it is always stuck in 1979…when corruption was king.
When cornered in politics; with great power comes ZERO responsibility.
In order for our hopelessly arrogant lawbreaking government to put away the associates now, they first have to admit to the dozens of major laws the wayward government broke around 1979 and then again in 2010. After 42 months of nothing except side dancing, it is obvious now that investigating themselves is something they will never do. These people who are essentially criminals now are amongst the most highly esteemed, highly awarded, squeaky clean politicians and lawmakers, past and present, ever in Illinois history, people who still carry extensive amounts of clout and still politically party like it’s 1979.
IN THEIR DEFENSE;
In retrospect; it is completely possible that our government ORIGINALLY did all of this in 1979 and 2010 with the best of intentions but instead has now dug a deep inescapable hole for themselves and their ilk, by listening to the wrong people. This corrupt blind accidental stupidity literally forces the citizens to live with mass murderers running free as they have been for 34 long filthy years.
COINCIDENCE?
The 2 honest men (unnamed governmental employees) who started to investigate my late 1970’s encounters in 2010 both “moved on” almost immediately after talking to me when I reapproached the government on this matter in 2010 … probably for talking to me too much. One “resigned” his high profile job that he had for over 25 years, and the other one “stepped down”. Both were very good men and are now perhaps victims themselves of a corrupt, evil, selfish and broken government. Being the good soldiers that they are they are probably looking the other way….one does need to make a living in the Land of Blue Code Silence you know. Keep in mind that around 1979 the major task force who were specifically investigating the Gacy associates were also ALL quietly dismissed by Illinois boneheads unknown. Welcome to Illinois… where the last Bonehead dinosaurs still roam the great halls of justice, bellowing and wailing orders of utmost outdated pomposity, devouring honest citizens in full Rampage video game fashion.
JAILTIME?
It is undeniable that several people in the supreme upper tiers of our government, both past and present, belong in prison. But with nobody powerful enough to send them there….. instead they hide between the pages of the false history they created….. and the media feeds on it. Where have all the investigative journalists gone? Are they now a dying breed auto-replaced with mirrored media messengers more suitable and trained through coercion to the current governments needs?
As for the new guys in government who screwed up; the doofus protégés unknown who secretly help run this backdoor government….try and tell me that these people are humble…try and tell me that they are not well trained omnipotent criminals stuck in permanent denial. Look at the fluffy press releases they force the police to read aloud. They are Boneheads….hungry hungry boneheads.
Witness stand anyone? I fear no truths, but I fear an untruthful government.
Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murder.
https://imageshack.us/user/turboquark
DEC 23 1978 Gacy ARTICLE
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=btULBOGQ_gcC&dat=19781223&printsec=frontpage&hl=en
This article states that Shrf. Elrod said that Gacy claimed “that there was a body here and a body there…and that they had been dumped in the lake or a lagoon or were buried…..
that there had been rumors that as many as 20 bodies might be found.”
There was the unverified statement that Gacy said that had strangled 32 young boys ….assuming it was true; that could mean that 20 bodies were in the home as ORIGINALLY sketched on a map BY GACY and the balance of the 32 came from elsewhere. This could substantiate my allegations that Gacy only knew of the 20 bodies in the home and that the police were ordered to plant the balance of the bodies from elsewhere, such as from Deep Quarry where there were both buried and drowned victims. Gacy said he had nothing to do with 16 of the victims that were found in his crawlspace when he was out of town as verified by Becker-Stephenson. Gacy was telling the truth that those 16 victims were not his.
The fact that Gacy stated “lake and lagoon” I contend that he literally meant “lake or lagoon” like Sunrise Lake, Mallard Lake and Deep Quarry, the 3 places where I encountered those mass murdering SOB’s.
From my eyewitness account from dozens of encounters Cram and Rossi operated as both associates of Gacy’s and on their own without Gacy.
I fear no truths, but I fear an untruthful government.
Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murder.
Why doesn’t somebody sue me for some kind of slander and get this over with?
Some of you literally sicken me!
I fear no truths, but I fear an untruthful government.
Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murder.
LAWYERS KNEW AS EARLY AS 1993 THAT ILLINOIS WAS BREAKING LAWS. (thereby giving free alibis to the associates)
this article was from 1993
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1993-11-24/news/9311240229_1_gregory-adamski-lethal-injection-supreme-court
Gacy Lawyers Sue To Claim Records
November 24, 1993
Lawyers for convicted killer John Wayne Gacy filed a lawsuit Tuesday in Cook County Circuit Court seeking the return of business records seized by authorities when he was arrested in 1978. Named as defendants in the suit are Sheriff Michael Sheahan, State’s Atty. Jack O’Malley and Illinois Atty. Gen. Roland Burris. Though the suit doesn’t spell out why Gacy is asking that the records of his contracting business be returned to him, Gregory Adamski, one of his lawyers, said the Death Row inmate believes they would show he was out of town when 28 of the 33 victims died.
end of article;
————
Of course the 28 initial estimate count was later reduced by a Becker-Stephenson study.
However it cannot be understated that the 1979 blind accidental stupidity of Illinois let the associates off the hook. The Blue code of Silence has never been so abused by so many individuals whose actions have become a 3 decades long danger to humanity.
When the law ceases to follow the law, when citizens have no place to turn to find HONEST LAWMAKING actions, when the citizens are subjected to only the calculated pomp of spotlighted praise and excessive amounts of dangerous false history ALL created at the expense of the peoples blood;
then it is time to imprison the bums who made this happen and those who refuse to fix it.
I fear no truths, but I fear an untruthful government.
Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murder.
I WITNESSED THAT CRAM AND ROSSI WERE NOT ALWAYS CAR THIEVES WHEN MURDERING AT DEEP QUARRY.
There were 2 guys who I am quite certain that I can ID by their faces and attire who were not in possession of an automobile when they disappeared. I witnessed them somehow lured onto the ledge of death (see map) by mass murderers Cram and Rossi without Gacy being present. To help put Rossi and the third abductor away I wish I could contact the 2 families and confirm my identification as to what they were wearing, hair style etc, when they were last seen but I know that the families have suffered enough at the hands of ALL THE MASS MURDERERS as well as the ridiculous shameful government insult of the secret cleanups, the false history they fabricated and providing free alibis to mass murderers while PRETENDING that nothing happened. Eventually I may artwork these 2 victims in their entirety and hope that the friends and families of these 2 victims sees my artwork and figures out that something quite disturbing and extremely stupid was perpetrated by our irresponsible government who have placed honesty well below other selfishly driven requirements. On a very disappointing note, I know that Mr. Doria, Mr. Elrod and Mr. Thompson are not quite the men I thought they were, but now it looks like neither is Tom Dart or John Zaruba. All have trouble with the truth regarding secret cleanups and government corruption. All may need to be brought up on class action charges.
It is too bad that the families of these murdered victims ARE THANKING THE GOVERNMENT; THEY SHOULD BE SUING THE IRRESPONSIBLE GOVERNMENT. We should all be suing the government.
I fear no truths, but I fear an untruthful government.
-Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murder.
BOXED IN BY THEIR OWN CROOKED PETARD.
What path will our LAWBREAKING government now take since Illinois has recently joined the criminality of 1979 by creating additional false history in 2010? The press releases and fabricated stories are long out. Crooked branches of the Illinois government have been reeling in thank you after thank you for years and years when in reality they should be indicted for 1979 and 2010. The crooked branches of Illinois law have clearly sided with the wrong side of basic law that most of civilized humanity follows, but since they ARE THE LAW, and we have NO WHERE ELSE TO TURN what does that say about the ethics of our past AND CURRENT government. What actual degree of closure is there when the guilty mass murderers I so often witnessed still lurk freely amongst us? Basking under the same flag of freedom and guise of normality afforded to all citizens, laughing at the broken system, free to murder more citizens, and molest more young men, while our government who accidently provided their alibis in 1979 and 2010 pretend that secret mass murder clean ups never happened. I have asked Mr. Rossi repeatedly to sue me, but why should he when the very government that is supposed to protect the citizens has instead chosen to FIRST AND FOREMOST protect themselves and their predecessors gigantic elaborate mistakes. If the current administrations wish to join the list of 1979 government lawbreaking perpetrators then perhaps they can join them in jail too. After 43 months I have lost my compassion. In the very least may they all be tried in the court of public opinion. We all know that throughout Illinois’ dark political history high ranking members of our government have been caught time after time breaking major laws, and believe me, THIS IS ONE OF THEM.
As long as the government is allowed to operate outside of the law this behavioral pattern will continue forevermore.
False praise and false honor are too easily obtainable unless the people put their foot down to end this. In all of civilized humanity, the lines of honesty regarding HEINOUS matters are clear, vividly obvious without variable. No human exists as to flourish his false resume at the expense of the citizens blood. There are no valid reasons to protect mass murderers, yet our crooked government has created and protected several filthy reasons by hiding and continuing to hide the many many laws they have broke. Are we the citizens somewhat to blame? Have we the citizens overpraised and overhoisted too many pompous petards onto the lofty thrones on which they perch? Are we the citizens now rendered indispensible in the quake of their pursuits of absolute political perfection without err? Have they rendered themselves flawless at our expense? Their inability to fully comprehend the gravity of their actions will become their ultimate undoing. It will not be the citizens who will ultimately destroy the dangerous fiction these lawless lawmen have created but the TRUTH ITSELF which will destroy them. The heinous truth and its heinous tangibles that they hid from the citizens is what promises to darken their ill gotten legacies unless they set the record straight NOW. Be it God or be it the people, they WILL pay for their crimes, one way or another. They must defend their accidental heinous misadventure NOW or face impeachment. Their ultimate failures will be their underestimation of the power of truth, the overestimation of their powers of judgment, and the sheer stupidity of creating false history. They will not get away with this.
I fear no truths, but I fear an untruthful government.
-Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murder.
Look out everyone. Let us not forget that the associates also killed women and a few older guys too, mostly young men though. I could artwork some of the ones I saw in detail, but only if it becomes absolutely necessary to help put away the mass murderers that our government let off the hook. My angry email that I thought would get me in trouble did get a quick response but not a completely positive one. I will take the good with the bad in this matter.
I fear no truths, but I fear an untruthful government.
-Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murder.
What do Dr. MLK’s words say about the men in charge of this coverup?
————————————————————————————————
“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at time of challenge and controversy”
-Martin Luther King, Jr.-
I think I found Rossi, but I am not sure. If it is him I am not surprised. That is all I can say for now. The police still won’t talk to me no matter how angry I get.
“That is all I can say for now.”
WHY? Why, why, why, why!! Then maybe you are just as bad!
>
Bluetreemarie,
All I really found were websites on the internet that said that the NY Rossi is in another state; please keep in mind I am still at 99% certainty that he is the Gacy guy until I actually meet this guy face to face. Additionally there are those who firmly INSIST that Rossi is in Chicago, but I have yet to see a photo of the Chicago Rossi. It is also possible I read bad information on the internet because there were no pictures of this guy. I sent the information to Cook, Dupage and Becker-Stephenson in an email that was emotionally out of control and may put me in hot water with Cook and Dupage. Time will tell.
I fear no truths, but I fear an untruthful government.
-Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murder.
Hi Bluetree,
I don’t fully understand…Bad as who?
CONDEMNED TO UNJUST OBSCURITY.
My story may never be governmentally allowed to be proven or publicized by the mainstream media, and as such may be condemned to unjustifiable obscurity by virtue of those who feel that the perception of their historical integrity is more important than putting away the mass murderers that they illegally, accidently and dangerously let off the hook for life.
I was told yesterday by an officer who I believe may be echoing words as a messenger of sorts, that even if Michael J. Rossi and his Gacy buddies stood up and confessed to the heinous mass murders that I claim to have witnessed that there is nothing that the police could do about it at this time, because as of today, no evidence exists; additionally nobody in our government has stood up to speak of my allegations. Did I misunderstand what they said….maybe I did….I truly and sincerely hope that I misunderstood for the sake of all that is right?
What shameful orders bark from the shadows to the loyal servants of law misguided through their unwilling plight ….. and onto the refusals of righteousness march these servants, these tools, these poor losers of all that is good…..a tragic ending to a fool’s errand of unquestioned obedience. These poor saps, undeniably victimized themselves now, almost brainwashed, yet reduced to a controlled silence by the stealthy bullies who need to be removed from their stonewalls of pompy perches that destroy this great state one secret blunder at a time. When this ship sinks, AND IT WILL, the captains will be the first to bail out, and the first to push the crew down with the ship. A ship over-controlled by fools…a ship with integrity hidden only in the souls of servitude, and integrity non-existent in the souls of the stealthy bullies who run this state…..and run it into the ground.
These secret clean ups, my fellow citizens… is the apex, the pinnacle, and the highest aspiration imaginable of absolute corruption as performed, and WELL executed in 1979 by the biggest royal heinousness’s ever in Illinois history, now blueprinted and studied for governmental criminality esto perpetua. I will not understate the full gravity of their folly for their convenience, nor will I place their hurt feelings by my name calling above the citizens lives they claim to protect. The safety of our citizens far outweighs their ridiculous demands for massive amounts of egocentric biographic literature whilst demanding from the masses that their feelings never be hurt. No mans feelings versus precious life itself could possibly be a worthy contest….. yet they make it a contest…. and the “why” becomes so sinister, senseless and selfish.
When push comes to shove, now we know where the citizens truly stand in the eyes of the politically omnipotent, even the citizens very lives have been downgraded to worthless paragraphs of false praise and honors in the annals of history. Proving, once again, that corruption is inevitable without mutual respect between the governed and the elected.
When ascertaining who is telling the truth in this matter; look at the track record of my personal history, other than traffic violations I am clean. Look at the countless tracks of history paved by our politicians in Illinois and many of those crooked tracks have been paved straight to the prison yards. Yet ironically, and tragically, I am non-publicized and as such undocumented by our cautious media. Who can blame them? The freedom of the main press now slipping slowly into the past, another freedom which was slowly taken away from the people by coercion of legal proof as demanded by the absolute power of the unaccountable unquestioned supremacy of the American courts.
It is no wonder that so many citizens simply choose to close the doors when the police come around. Will the Becker-Stephenson Quest for Truth ever become a reality? I for one believe this noble quest will end on a dead end road of filth and lies…shot down by a final ruling ….by those paid to judge…. yet so very much unfit to judge!
As for people like me, a media microphone in the hands of a well meaning fool such as myself is now a legal document and a spotlight to be used against those who dare to speak up against the educated and street smart criminals of today who exist on both sides of the law in this struggling uncivilized state of Illinois which is stuck in 1979 when it comes to this secret cleanup mass murder matter.
The message the government is sending, which will serve for generations of aspiring political criminals, lawless lawmen, and their henchmen is to leave no trail, no documentation, and no pathways to your guilt and break whatever laws you wish, and above all else get the government to break a few laws for you on your behalf. The inglorious blue code of silence will protect all of you, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!
Of course that last sentence is sarcasm, but that is the message they are sending, is it not?
And lastly, it is often said that “criminals have more rights than we do”, this dark matter proves that statement to be true beyond a shadow of a doubt.
I fear no truths, but I fear an untruthful government.
-Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murder.
I MAY HAVE BEEN WRONG IN ONE OF MY ALLEGATIONS.
POLICE MAY NOT HAVE PLANTED THE VICTIMS AT GACY’S HOME.
There is one possible explanation that I have been dwelling on that could point to police innocence regarding my allegation that SOME of the victims that I witnessed were planted at Gacy’s home by the government. It is entirely possible that the police did NOT plant the victims at Gacy’s home and that Cram, Rossi and perhaps the third abductor murdered SOME of the victims I witnessed and left them hidden at Deep Quarry until Gacy came around to collect the victim and bring them to his home or wherever he took them; lunacy is unpredictable. I cannot state emphatically that ALL of the victims that I witnessed motionless in prone and propped up positions accosted by those guys ended in the familiar large water splashbooms I often heard; reason being, sometimes my visits to that quarry were short and I did not stick around long enough to see or hear everything going on around me. This possible explanation could explain how I witnessed that SOME of the victims I saw in detail at Deep Quarry appeared to have wound up in Gacys crawlspace. It does not explain what happened to the woman and the older guys though. It also does not explain the most puzzling victim of all (name removed). It would also explain the stories that came out over 30 years ago from interviews with detectives that Gacy moved bodies around, murdered a woman or two, and murdered a few older guys; interviews that now seem hard to find due to extreme media saturation. At that quarry throughout the late 70’s I witnessed that Gacy came by from time and time to visit and to have meetings of sorts with Cram and Rossi on the ledge of death. They used this area like a meeting room or a lunch room. I usually left when I saw Gacy or his car but grew braver and perhaps more stupid, as the years went by and my avoidance tapered to a marginal avoidance. After all, despite several years of those guys being there, there were never any reports which lessened the impact of the strange behaviors I witnessed.
I may have made a huge mistake and jumped to a hasty conclusion that the police had planted SOME of the Deep Quarry victims at Gacy’s home, which maybe they did, or maybe they didn’t.
However public speculation runs rampant, runs dangerous and is quite possibly flawed when dealing WITHOUT extreme honesty by ALL involved and especially when dealing with governmental organizations that appear to be absolutely nothing, or so it seems.
-Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to Deep Quarry mass murder.
that headline should say
I MAY HAVE BEEN WRONG IN ONE OF MY ALLEGATIONS.
POLICE MAY NOT HAVE PLANTED SOME OF THE VICTIMS AT GACY’S HOME.
Been a while since I been on. Question for you Link. Did the cleanup your talking about take place the same time as the dig under Gacys house? Watched a lot of films on GACY and noticed when they came out with stretchers a few times the way they were being carried that something should of fallen out. Gacy while he was alive was so sure he would get out and not be executed. He had many appeals, a few should have been granted with the strong evidence, but politics prevented it. One of his accomplices was extremely protected and still is because every time someone new went down this path, suddenly they stop. I’m beginning to think that many of the bodies were not under his house as they claim but may have been found at the spot your talking about but stated was found at Gacys house. Also, we only have the press and the police who stated Gacy testified of all the murders yet years later not one recording has been heard of his testimony. And what little video is seen, he does state he did kill some, but not all. Someone goes out that far to say hhe’s killed, there is no real reason to deny the others. Something a lot bigger went on and swept under the mat so to speak.
What I’m saying, is not that the bodies were moved to Gacys, that most were at Deep Quarry to begin with. These bodies were sent straight to the morgue to identify and never anywhere else and that it was certain officials that stated they were found at Gacys.
Hi Xanthor,
Your hypothesis is CERTAINLY a possibility. I contend that giving former Sheriff Richard Doria, former Sheriff and now judge Richard Elrod and Former Gov. James Thompson a formal deposition or putting them on a witness stand would GET TO the bottom of who in our government ordered these secret cleanups….and why not ask Mr. Dart, Mr. Zaruba, the entire Gacy investigation team, and a few past and present policeman to be put on the witness stand as well. If they are all honest men they should have no problem answering a few questions.
WE ALL KNOW THAT THESE GUYS PUT CITIZENS ON THE STAND ANYTIME THEY WISH, SO THEY SHOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM PUTTING THEMSELVES ON THE STAND UNLESS THEY ARE BEING ORDERED TO HIDE SOMETHING and for who’s benefit… most certainly not the people’s benefit.
This is supposed to be an honest government by the people and for the people but that is not the way they are running it, they are clearly ABOVE THE LAW in their own law breaking minds.
When I mentioned the word “deposition” to the last police officer I spoke to a couple of weeks ago, he suddenly had to end the short conversation. He was responding to my emotionally out of control impeachment threats and that was about it. I still think I am headed for big trouble with the police over these impeachment threats I have sent them on multiple occasions. My impeachment threats are proving to be pointless and are serving to only get me in trouble. Like I said before, when mass murderers are better off than the witnesses to their murders it is time for new laws; our government has created one of the most corrupt situations imaginable. There are absolutely NO VALID EXCUSES for this governmental behavior. There are no valid reasons to protect mass murderers, yet our government THINKS that they have created one, and that is to protect themselves and their law breaking buddies at ANY EXPENSE, even the lifeblood of the very citizens they swore to protect.
As for the timing of the Deep Quarry cleanup, I don’t know when specifically they dug up the buried victims and when specifically they retrieved them from the water but it MUST have been about the same time that they started excavating Gacy’s home on Summerdale in Dec of 1978. After the initial retrieval of the majority of the victims in Gacys crawlspace in Dec of 78, the LENGTHY MONTHS AND MONTHS LONG FULL EXCAVATION of Gacys home occurred at the same time as the lengthy full excavation of Deep Quarry and the start of the Mallard lake project where Gacy was also running around.
(copy of similar letter to be sent to Dupage County, Cook County, The State of IL, The state of NY and the Federal Government)
DEMAND FOR A PUBLIC DEPOSITION IN THE INTEREST OF NATIONAL SECURITY.
In the interest of national security which requires mandatory imprisonment of all mass murderers, some of whom are still free after 30 years DUE TO GOVERNMENT COVER-UPS OF SUSPECTED JOHN WAYNE GACY MASS MURDER SITES.
I Felix Francis Marcus (born 3-25-57 St. Johns, NL, Canada) a taxpaying dual citizen of the United States and Canada; an eyewitness to mass murders at what is now known as Deep Quarry in Dupage County demand the following
WITHOUT CONTENTION by the Illinois and federal government.
I demand and contend that giving former Sheriff of Dupage County Richard Doria, former Sheriff of Cook County and now judge Richard Elrod and former Gov. James Thompson a formal deposition or putting them on a witness stand would get to the bottom as to who in our government ordered these secret cleanups in 1979. This information would unlock the sealed records which accidently unleashed mass murderers upon society with no recourse for the safety of the citizens. These are mass murderers who I WITNESSED murdering approx 1 dozen citizens during the late 1970’s. These aforementioned men refuse to acknowledge the illegal course of their actions and have set an illegal precedent that continues today.
I demand and contend that giving Sheriff Tom Dart and Sheriff John Zaruba a formal deposition or putting them on a witness stand would expose their knowledge of this unacceptable heinous situation and also who in our government possibly ordered additional secret cleanups during their terms as Sheriff of Cook County and Sheriff of Dupage County respectively; following in the lawbreaking footsteps of their predecessors which thereby accidently provide alibis to mass murderers.
IF THEY ARE ALL HONEST MEN;
If they are all honest men, which they claim to be, then they should have no problem answering a few questions; PUBLIC LAW DEMANDS HONESTY; our laws will not work without honesty as its core principal. If they refuse to the deposition demands then impeachment or imprisonment is well deserved; reason being, we all know that our government will put ordinary citizens on the stand any time they wish, so they should have no problem putting themselves on the stand unless they are hiding something from the public.
IF ORDINARY CITIZENS HAD PULLED THE SAME STUNTS AS THESE OFFICIALS HAVE DONE; THE ORDINARY CITIZENS WOULD BE ARRESTED IMMEDIATELY WITH THE FULL WEIGHT OF THE LAW UPON THEM. So what laws allow these men to get away with a record number of broken laws all performed without the peoples knowledge?
A few weeks ago I talked to an officer about this situation, when I mentioned giving depositions to a few individuals who I specifically named, he suddenly and quickly ended the conversation.
Witness stand anyone?
-Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to mass murders at Deep Quarry, Dupage County IL.
To the know it all doubters of my stories,
I have set a new record for giving a police a hard time for almost 4 years now, to the point of career destroying threats even, why am I still uncharged with even the slightest charge against me? Explain that.
PETITION #2
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/demand-for-a-public-deposition
Petition #2 to be mass circulated but only if our government refuses to fix their colossal blunder which endangers the citizens. I will give the government a little more time to fix this before I mass circulate this petition. They are being extremely foolish, selfish and criminal.
Witness stand anyone?
-Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to mass murder.
I was recently threatened and feel I have no where to turn, the police will not protect me for something that lawbreaking governmental officials with historical clout will claim never happened, in light of this will the media please DO THEIR JOB if something happens to me.
WHO TO ASK?
If anyone has any questions as to what became of my allegations, please direct these questions to the following men who are simply following asinine orders:
Sheriff of Cook County Tom Dart.
Sheriff of Dupage County John Zaruba.
Commander Frank Bibbiano of the Dupage County Sheriffs Police.
Scott Cassidy, Cook County Deputy Chief Investigator.
Dan Palmer, former Chief of Police of Bartlett, who stepped down in 2010.
Eric Roger, former Bartlett Detective.
Jason Moran, Cook County Detective.
of special concern is why have these men NOT put anyone on a witness stand in matters of such grave concern. These are not misdemeanors, my charges are amongst the most serious of charges. Who is giving orders to them?
Why…. for the last 4 YEARS…. are they following in the footsteps of 30 YEARS OF ASSINE orders that constitute some of the most heinous, selfish, illegal orders ever given…..ORDERS THAT PROTECT MASS MURDERERS!
Time flies by so fast, the years turn to days and the days to minutes. Admit it 1979 dumbasses, you were outsmarted by Gacy’s associates, pedophile murderous thugs who… as these associates claimed “left bodies all over the place” that you dumbass idiots cleaned up for them at Deep Quarry and who knows where else. Where did you idiots really find Daniel Noe? I have very little compassion left for any of you….. when you have even less compassion for the common man. You are filth. Filth that we are forced to obey and forced to die…. to protect your ENDLESS FILTH.
Witness stand anyone?
-Felix Francis (Frank) Marcus, eyewitness to mass murder.
(copy of a letter sent to an extremely high ranking man in Cook County just a few minutes ago)
Mr. (removed for now),
The last time we spoke you told me that you will look into the secret cleanups regarding my mass murder eyewitness account, your exact words to me were “but you need to listen”.
OK I am now ready to listen. Please say something.
Failure to say anything will tell me that you truly believe that in your opinion there are acceptable valid reasons to protect mass murderers. You know and I know that a few well placed depositions could get to the bottom of this. These are not minor infractions, these were the most heinous of crimes on a large scale, please treat it as such.
his response;
Mr. Marcus….you have had and you still have my number. Call my desk. I am here now.
(name removed)
Cook County Sheriffs Police Department
HAMSTERWHEELING – THE TREADMILLS OF JUSTICE.
Below is another response from a similar request to an extremely high ranking man in Dupage County, this time I requested a written statement to one simple question.
his response to my one simple question;
Mr. Marcus- I received the email in which you asked if I (sentence removed) in regards to the allegations you made. I, however, disagree and believe a phone call is necessary. I tried calling you and left a message. Please call me back when you have chance. Thanks.
Regards,
(name removed)
DuPage County Sheriff’s Office
my thoughts on this;
I know that these guys in Cook and Dupage are just doing what they are told by Sheriffs Dart and Zaruba who in turn are just doing what they are told by political powerhouses unknown to myself, but come on, soon it will be 4 full years of hamsterwheeling phone calls and circular arguments…. just running in place… Dupage points to Cook and Cook points to Dupage…..getting nowhere… that’s all the phone calls ever amount to…. wasting taxpayer dollars on what I call the preservation of corruption and even worse yet the protection of governmentally known mass murderers and pedophiles.
Would things be different if high ranking government hot shots had friends and family that wanted to go hang out with cold blooded murderous pedophiles Michael J. Rossi or the third abductor? We all know that Cram kept killing, and we also know that Rossi is much smarter, and so is the third abductor if he is the man I identified over 2 years ago, which makes them both far more dangerous than Gacy ever was. Yet our government keeps pretending that nothing happened, or so it seems…for 4 years now. Perhaps it is I who is the biggest fool of all, to keep believing for so long that someone will fix this situation.
Felix Francis Marcus- eyewitness to mass murder.
I seldom leave a response, however i did a few searching and wound up
here EXCLUSIVE – Unfinished Nightmare: The Search for More Victims
of John Wayne Gacy | ShadowReports. And I actually do have a few questions for you if you don’t mind.
Could it be only me or does it seem like some of these responses look as if
they are coming from brain dead people? 😛 And, if you are posting on
additional places, I’d like to follow everything fresh you have
to post. Could you list of all of all your communal sites like
your Facebook page, twitter feed, or linkedin profile?
Braindead? Have I misunderstood?
What possible interest could Bradley have in reading additional comments from those who he perceives to be labeled as braindead? Perhaps he needs to elaborate just exactly who his comments are aimed at?
Perhaps this is a far more dangerous situation then Bradley realizes. Albeit his response is probably somewhat typical however being overly critical by quickly ascertaining another humans plight is a complicated ordeal. Bradley, nor anyone cannot possibly walk a mile in my shoes thus I somewhat understand the comment; however if he pleases I hope he elaborates anyway.
-Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to mass murder
Hi, I log on to your new stuff like every week. Your story-telling
style is awesome, keep up the good work!
COPY OF LETTER SENT TO EXTREMELY HIGH RANKING MEN IN COOK AND DUPAGE COUNTY TODAY.
Mr. (removed),
Mr. (removed),
I realize that you both are just following orders however almost 4 years have elapsed since I restarted my contacting of the police in these matters. My original attempt around 1980 was met with deliberate stonewalling by the police. I firmly believe that this matter is still being stonewalled by the government to hide the criminality of high profile government figures. I am sorry but I would prefer to not continue the trend of 4 years of undocumented dead end phone calls. I am formally asking for a written publishable statement, email will suffice. Please answer the 2 questions numbered 1 or 2 below in written publishable form.
1) The police recently told me words to the effect of “even if one of the men who you are accusing of murder were to confess to any of the murders that you are claiming to have witnessed, that there is nothing that the police could do about it at this time.
Could you please tell the public and myself in written publishable form just exactly why the government would do nothing about a confession from a mass murderer when certainly the government must know that a few well placed depositions could help rectify the dangerous situation of mass murderers remaining free?
2) Have you given a legal deposition to anyone listed below in regards to what I am calling my eyewitness account to mass murder and its subsequent governmental cover-up?
————————
-Mass murder. (who to deposition)
A) Michael J. Rossi, a man who I alone have identified through internet photos as living in (removed) who partnered with David F. Cram (deceased) and occasionally Gacy himself.
B) The third abductor, who I supplied a sketch of, a man who I identified with only 10% certainty however certainly someone in government knows exactly who he is……or was.
——————————
-1978 Deep Quarry mass murder cover up. (who to deposition or who did you deposition)
C) Shrf. Richard Doria
D) Shrf. Richard Elrod (recently deceased)
E) Gov. James Thompson.
F) Investigator (name removed)
G) Anyone from the Gacy investigation team.
—————————-
-2010 (name removed) story, a man whose murder I am most certain that I witnessed at the hands of David F. Cram and Michael J. Rossi approx in the fall of 1978.
He was wearing a sports like maroon windbreaker with possibly some type of white accents in the sleeve area similar to a high school varsity jacket, (see attached jpg for an almost similar look and color of the jacket), new looking blue jeans and a bright red new looking t-shirt. I described his accosting and being struck down in many emails already sent to the police on many occasions. This is a murder not whatever the government may have fabricated in 2010. I originally understood why the government may have fabricated this however I have since identified the killers.
The (removed) story and its storyline embellishments do not add up; it does however point to Federal involvement. (who to deposition)
H) Tom Dart
I) John Zaruba
J) (name removed)
K) (name removed)
L) (name removed)
M) Consultant Investigator (name removed)
N) Head of the Chicago FBI field office in 2010.
Lastly;
I would prefer that you do not downgrade the status of this request by transferring it to someone else.
Please state the answers in written publishable form as your answers most likely may be published.
Honest men have no problems answering honest questions so I am quite positive and optimistic that you will provide a favorable response.
As I have stated many times; it was never my intention to go on a witch hunt for public officials however there are NO valid reasons to protect mass murderers and it has been almost 4 years now.
Please take the time necessary to provide understandable PUBLISHABLE responses.
I sincerely apologize for putting you in this spot, I really do but murderers must be put away.
Thanks,
Frank Marcus, eyewitness to mass murder.
This is a jacket similar to what Daniel Noe was wearing when I saw him being accosted at Deep Quarry on the ledge of death approx. 1978 by David F. Cram and Michael J. Rossi. He was also wearing new looking blue jeans and a bright red T-shirt. First he was standing in the typical accosting area on the ledge of death and then he was laying down motionless on the ground with Cram and Rossi circling him.
http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/deepquarry/media/similartoDanielNoesjacketatDeepQuarryapprox1978CramRossi_zps06ff6de1.jpg.html
– I will testify to this in court.
Witness stand anyone?
Felix Francis (Frank) Marcus- eyewitness to mass murder.
I’m confused. Wasn’t Daniel Noe found in Utah?
Yes Snoopy, Daniel Now was found in Utah, if you go back and read my Jan 4th, 2014 posting and others you will see that I have been bringing up that very point over and over again to the police who will not respond to me. This incident is just another reason why most likely the government will not do anything now. The government in 2010 joined the criminality of 1978 instead of fixing it. It also points to federal involvement.
THE IMPOSSIBLE CRIMINALITY OF THE GOVERNMENTALLY EDUCATED?
Snoopy and others,
Are some of my secret cleanup claims getting hard to believe?
STRANGER THAN FICTION?
I AM A WITNESS.
I will tell the truth.
I will not omit any truths.
I will not forsake ANY truths for anyone, for any reason regardless of their credentials, awards, status, or ANY false history that they may have created.
I will bear no false witness whatsoever against any man.
In the end I will answer to God and to only God regarding the truths I speak.
In the matter of secret cleanups;
-Are these truths I speak stranger than fiction – YES.
-Are these truths I speak stronger than governmental fiction – not yet but eventually YES!
Honesty will prevail, it may take decades, but in the end the total destruction of these roadblocks of corruption are inevitable.
Absolute pomposity with corruption with arrogance is dictatorial and does not bend however; neither does the ethical resolve of the honesty demanded by the American people. The liars will simply lose. Will they go to jail… No probably not …liars protect liars…idiots protect idiots…government protects government…government rewards liar with awards to sooth the hungry beast; and who will protect us? That’s a good question for anyone in government who claims to give a damn! But stand back for the governments answer, it will reek of chit of the bull, huff huff and puff puff…rehearsed words puppeted through pawns from Droneland. Until they fix this secret cleanup matter why would I believe otherwise?
Cook County, Dupage County and the entire state of ILLINOIS AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT has some explaining to do regarding the protection of these mass murderers and these secret cleanups and eventually they will LOSE, even if they refuse to say a single word in their defense. Unfortunately the killers will kill and kill again while Illinois lies and lies and lies by pretending that nothing ever happened. Education and election will never mend the broken brain.
Their 4 years of undocumented silence is their confession.
Witness stand anyone else?
-Felix Francis (Frank) Marcus, Eyewitness to mass murder.
Snoopy,
Please write to me.
deepquarry@yahoo.com
Witness stand anyone?
Felix Francis (Frank) Marcus- eyewitness to mass murder.
Link/None, I hit a nerve today. Was responding on CNN website to a murder and it was way it was done that had me mention Gacy. I was going to post a link here to it as the post hit so much momentum I could no longer type on my tablet and had to use my twin I7 server to handle the load. I wanted you to get a chance to post there while it was hot! But something was done by CNN to my article as you would say squashed. Every reply in my email would turn up deleted. I’m so doing angry, this would of been the moment now lost!!!!!!!
Anyway, got me to thinking about the bodies. The numbers that could of brought it to 45. Its already proven mob related hence how the DAs grandson got off scott free so to speak. Anyway, you keep mentioning a cleanup at the quarry and it made me look up a lot of old geography maps. All those bodies in the quarry by the ledge you mentioned. There is no way in hell, they could have been removed without a witness. I after googling so many maps and seeing changes figure the bodies are too many to have been removed not to mention the job in cleaning them up would be messy and attract notice plus had a good drought come, they would of been found. What would make it harder to get to them? Bulldozing tuns of earth and rock into the quarry, planting grass and flowers to change the geography. The bodies were not removed, they are still there but to get to them now would put anyone at great risk of dying as moment they dug down enough due to water, would cause a colaps. Now if there is a drought and you have old and new maps, might be able to overlay them and then find the rest of the missing.
BARTLETT AND WAYNE TOWNSHIP DRAINED THE LAKE IN 1979.
Hi Xanthor,
I mentioned this in previous postings. The government did drain the lake. Right after Gacy was caught, the government drained the small south end lake where Gacy and his associates were disposing the victims. I went there one day shortly after Gacy was caught. Cram and Rossi were nowhere to be found which was unusual at that time seeing how they were almost always there right up to the time that Gacy was caught. I watched a middle aged man in a maintenance type uniform start up a large water pump about the size of a large pickup truck which was hooked up to the small south end lake and then he left….. leaving the gigantic rusty noisy old pump running with a large long beige colored hose leading southwest hundreds of yards off into the distance. I will artwork this eventually. I witnessed this from the south end cliff close to area K on the thug map I drew. I then watched the worker leave, he started walking north to leave but then he turned around and looked up in my direction as I stood on the cliff face looking down towards him, he never really broke stride too much and then he resumed his walk and left the quarry… and then I left the quarry too…. wondering if I was trespassing because they had just recently placed a long telephone pole laying down across the entrance where people used to park. There were also some new signs placed at the entrance that I ignored.
At that time Bartlett and Wayne Township were making their secret move to keep the stigma of John Wayne Gacy out of their SECRETLY pompous little towns and now it is a tragic and fatal FACT that some people paid with their lives, and that kids and young adults were molested and possibly murdered by the cold blooded mass murdering associates long after Gacy was caught; all so that Bartlett, Dupage County and Wayne Township could remain stigma free of John Wayne Gacy. There must have been other reasons too though. Obviously the feds and the state got involved; they too got people killed by letting mass murderers off the hook without ANY REMORSE NOW. In fact what Tom Darts team did in 2010 with the governmentally fabricated Daniel Noe story, actually helped the associates by creating alibis for them whether he admits it or not; and What Dart’s and Zaruba’s mentors did in 1979 also created alibis for the associates. I challenge these man to take the stand to dispute me in this matter. I challenge them all to take the stand, especially Michael J. Rossi.
As I mentioned before; I pointed out an isolated incident to the police that occurred around 1987 when Cram and I briefly had common friends that shows that Cram in all likelihood kept murdering.
Michael J. Rossi could literally admit what he did at Deep Quarry and according to Commander (removed) of the Dupage County Police there is nothing that the government could do about it. I am working on trying to get that individual to make a publishable statement regarding that remark.
Witness stand anyone?
-Felix Francis (Frank) Marcus, Eyewitness to mass murder.
How deep is it about where the bodies were dumped? If they drained it, they obviously filled it with something. People may very well be stepping on dirt where a lake was. Do you know anyone with land servey equipment? That area is Staten owned, but if open to public all you need to do is get somebody with equipment to check the area. If there are bodies down there and they see that, get a copy and send it to Washington, the whitehouse. Not the local police. Believe me they can’t squash that, especially if it proves there are uncought killers out there. Btw, please tell me you handled that metal rod with gloves. If hopefully that piece of evidence is still with the police dept, then not only will it have his prints on it, it will have his DNA and the DNA of every person killed by it.
THE CLEANUP ITSELF.
Hi Xanthor,
The way it was explained to me, explained second hand that is, is that the police removed 20-something drowned victims, young men to be precise, from a “small lake near Chicago” and that supposedly all the families were notified (please see my earlier postings). This information came from a now retired high level cop soon after I contacted the Bartlett P.D. in 2010 regarding my approx 1975 Sunrise Lake incident with Gacy. About 2 weeks after I reported this incident there was a cement truck in front of the Sunrise Lake building that Gacy had taken me into, and shortly after that Daniel Noe was supposedly discovered by hunters in Utah; Noe was a young man who looked exactly like one of the men who I witnessed murdered by Cram and Rossi in 1978. Several interesting coincidences indeed that puts Tom Darts and John Zaruba’s team UNDER PUBLIC QUESTIONING, and that is exactly where I plan to put them. I have no qualms with calling a liar a liar. A witness should never have to fear the exposing of governmental lies that protects mass murderers such as Michael J. Rossi and his buddies. In a perfect society, a witness should never have to fear corruption however perfection is OBVIOUSLY NOT what our governments wants in this matter.
The quarry in Bartlett where I encountered Gacy and his associates at FOR YEARS in the Northwest suburbs is certainly “near Chicago”.
That quarry also fits the bill as to Gacy’s statement to Elrod at the time of his arrest that bodies “..were dumped… into a lake…”, a statement Gacy later recanted.
That quarry also fits the bill as to Frank Mains Becker-Stephenson article regarding the associates going to where “bodies were all over the place”.
That quarry is also where I took a murder weapon from Cram and Rossi in 1977 that I turned over to the authorities. This weapon also matches the rods I saw in Gacy’s trunk.
Probable cause exists in many facets of this heinous matter, yet our government refuses to lift a single finger to investigate this, or so it seems.
At that EXACT timeframe that this quarry was being cleaned up I had a friend in Hanover Park (John Whitten aka John Jensen) who supposedly drowned in a quarry near Elgin somewhere. If John Whitten was a murder victim at Deep Quarry and if the government spread out these victims throughout several counties and then lied to the public where they really found these victims then this would implicate the Feds and the state. There are very few people who could order separate counties in Illinois around.. the feds, the governor, and that is about it. This is high level corruption by men who probably thought they were doing the right thing but screwed up instead, men whose proclaimed history is OBVIOUSLY more important than the lives of the past, PRESENT and FUTURE murdered and molested victims at Deep Quarry, NY, IL, MI and who knows where else; the “where else’s” we may never know because the liars are good…. very very good….and very very important…OBVIOUSLY.
Witness stand anyone else besides me?
-Felix Francis (Frank) Marcus, Eyewitness to mass murder.
Xanthor,
I agree 100% that there could still be bodies at some of the locations where I witnessed Gacy and his associates at Deep Quarry, or Mallard lake or Sunrise Lake, but with ALL the false history created by the accidental damn liars in government providing alibis to ALL the criminals on BOTH sides of the law I believe that these blind accidental bastards will NOW do nothing. What governmental sickness abounds that liars with clout (even the clout of mass murderer Michael J. Ross) will defeat even obvious truths thereby protecting mass murdering pedophiles from ANY prosecution which in turn creates the irony which reverses the suspicions of doubt upon a truthful witness. Maybe it is time to see just how far these filthy lying bastards are willing to go to protect the lies and false history of filthy corrupt lying politicians? Will they knowingly prosecute an honest witness to protect REAL criminals? I don’t know but I would sure hate to find out the hard way. They are so damn corrupt that much is obvious. They have reached the ultimate pinnacle of knowingly lying to the public. Nobody, nowhere will ever top these damnedest of all lies that these governing bodies have KNOWINGLY thrust upon the good citizens. They are NOT the good lawmen that they think they are, they are the enemies of honesty. the enemies of ethics, and enemies of the people… they get us murdered, molested and destroy our families while they bask in paychecks, honors and the senseless maintenance of false history.
Witness stand anyone else besides ME?
-Felix Francis (Frank) Marcus, Eyewitness to mass murder.
Link, I condensed what you have said over the years and wrote a contact at the white house. Hopefully something will get done.
before tablet runs out, wanted to fit in this last reply. Was doing more rearsearch and discovered this interesting article. Man in his 50s who moved out of a home marked for demalition for new housing turned up to have children aged 5 and up burried under it. so far 12 found, 6 more expected to be dug up. sound familier? it may end up worse then gacy and if the culprit is in fact Gacy.s accomplice and also the ex DAs grandson, lot of heads are going to roll.
EARLY REPORTS.
Why did the police initially state in 1978 that Gacy dug up and moved victims? Why did they also state around 20 years ago that Gacy was suspected of murdering a few women. ( I saw 2 females victims). I do not believe that Gacy would dig a victim up out of the ground and move it!. I believe it was the police moving the victims, covering their law breaking asses just in case someone figured out that some victims were moved. Tampering with evidence is just one of many laws the police broke and are still breaking.
Witness stand anyone?
-Felix Francis (Frank) Marcus, Eyewitness to mass murder.
I now see that more of my artwork has mysteriously disappeared from my imageshack account. Big brother is a big mother $%&^er
Witness stand anyone?
-Felix Francis (Frank) Marcus, Eyewitness to mass murder.
COPY OF LETTER RECENTLY SENT TO 2 EXTREMELY HIGH RANKING GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES (not elected officials).
(both names removed)
Just a reminder to please resolve this heinous matter. I am asking you both as a gesture of good faith towards the citizens of this supposedly civilized country, that you make a publishable statement in response to what I am calling my eyewitness account. Your refusal to respond to this public request may also be published. Under ordinary honest conditions there is a great deal that I could prove as to the presence of Gacy, Rossi, Cram, the third abductor, myself, Daniel Noe, Russell Nelson, Robert Gilroy and others at that quarry and Sunrise Lake however the governments FULL illegality of this matter has rendered the entire secret cover-up and situational ruse unconstitutional and without any due process whatsoever. Your mentors have violated the constitutional rights of the victims, the families of the victims, the witnesses, our nations children, just about everyone who is/was affected by the murderous molesting associates senseless continued freedom. Your esteemed mentors have senselessly, needlessly, illegally, arrogantly, and recklessly endangered us all with full accidental blind stupidity which has now become FULL REPERCUSSIONAL UNCARING MALICE towards the citizens who you swore to protect. The government cannot possibly expect children and adults to continue being victimized, sodomized or possibly murdered by free individuals who I PERSONALLY witnessed to be abductors/mass murderers strictly for the dual purpose of cleansing stigma and to protect the obvious criminality of high level government figures. I firmly believe that these illegal government clean ups were initially done with the best of intentions, however you know and I know that the government broke many laws regarding the secret cleanups of suspected John Wayne Gacy sites. The Illinois Supreme Kangaroo Court, with Bartlett IL front and center as a main benefactor which spawned the fabricated history in 1979 AND 2010 was 100% illegal and 100% fatal to those who suffered in death as a result of its 3 decade aftermath. Not to be understated as a matter of convenience for those in government are the decades of pedophilia and molestations to many of our children in IL, MI and NY. The stigma of Cook County, Dupage county and the town of Bartlett’s plight is inconsequential if it involved/involves the victimizing of innocent human beings. Any police officer, politician, or government employee whose primary concern is to protect the 1979 and 2010 lawbreaking politicians and lawbreaking police officers over the safety of the citizens and especially children should reconsider their career choice; a quick vote amongst the people would verify this statement completely. The people do not want a blatantly corrupt government that protects it’s criminality, with the byproduct of such criminality being the lifetime protection of mass murderers and pedophiles, nor do the people need a government that values corruption, values false history and values governmental lies AT ANY COST.
If you are simply following orders that continue to effectually protect mass murderers then I completely disagree with your actions but if that is the path you choose, then so be it, infamy thru apathy may become your legacy, your names may then deservedly be added to my publishable list of those in government who refuse to lift a finger in this secret cleanup mass murder matter. Take your time and get your statements right. The bottom line is that you are NOT working for a criminal organization and you do have to investigate mass murder.
Thank You.
-Felix Francis (Frank) Marcus, Eyewitness to mass murder.
AN AMERICAN TRADEGY.
http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20140119/NEWS/140119643
I believe his death may have stemmed from the pressure of extreme honesty. He was a good man in a corrupt world.
WHEN GOOD PEOPLE ARE PUSHED OVER THE EDGE.
Washingtonville NY investigative reporter John Sullivan believed in getting to the truth of every story. He also believed right out of the starting gate in my eyewitness account of the mass murders at Deep Quarry. Whether or not he continued in this belief towards the end I may never know. He certainly was stonewalled, which is essentially the same as being lied to, by the arrogant pomposity of the false history fabricated by our filthy government; he was stonewalled as was I. Soon after contacting me he left his position as an investigative reporter…. “left” was the word he used…. “resignation” was the word they used. I last corresponded with this good man last December; 3 weeks later he died “suddenly”. His last email to me was of total beaten down frustration; a good man exasperated by the system. The exact circumstances of his unfortunate death are unknown to me however I do feel that he was deeply disheartened by the power of political corruption and the illegal stranglehold that it has on the American people. His relentless pursuit of exposing political lawbreakers clearly showed that he was on our side, the side of the honest moral majority. This good man would most likely still be alive today were it not for the criminals in our government who pushed him just as far as his own personal limits would allow. Although I did not personally know him other than through light correspondence, his death hit me hard, harder than you could ever imagine. My documents of the eyewitness accounts I supplied of Gacy, Cram, Rossi, the third abductor, and others (many victims of the pre-mentioned) provided substantial kindling to ignite the fires of heinous political butchery of a system abused by those corrupt in government. The government has driven a WEDGE of arrogant malice, silently, secretly, and deeply into the hearts of the citizens who support them…..the same citizens who honor them….the same unsuspecting citizens who document government LIES in the form of “history”….this disgusting filthy government of ours MUST view itself as the creator of history; be it false or factual….so twisted is this ordained engrained river of filth that this government must actually believe in their own human superiority. Those corrupt in government in these multiple “Gacy and associates” secret cleanup matters have not only bit the hand that feeds them, they have gotten our citizens killed and/or molested as well. I have heard and read many times that many in our government share similar traits to sociopaths and psychopaths who have complete disregard for those whose lives they destroy. I did not believe those words when I first heard them, but as of the last 4 years I believe those words wholeheartedly. With only enough conscience to stay afloat under the media spotlights in the sea of lies these political hacks have mastered the science of Corruption Perfecto. Are these political hacks worth it?…Of course not!…But in true sociopathic and psychopathic fashion they don’t give a damn, just as long as the awards, the glory and the documented history they fabricate tips the scales in their favor, they are happy as can be, because that’s all that matters in the lives of sociopaths and psychopaths. The bottom line is all involved in this Deep Quarry mass murder cover up need to be removed from government because they simply cannot see the necessitative virtues of honesty. The carnage, murders, molestations, and criminality will never end until they either join the honest moral majority, step down, be imprisoned or be removed from their positions. I will reverse my opinion and apologize only when they join the honest moral majority and stop getting us victimized…but then again to a true psychopath I am a nobody whose opinion, and whose LIFE…..is of no concern to them…. we all are.
Who dies next ?
Regards,
-Felix Francis Marcus , eyewitness to mass murder.
This was the first article I hit upon when searching “honesty”, which is a virtue that many in our current government has lost sight of.
http://www.greatamericanhistory.net/honesty.htm
Abraham Lincoln’s great laws of truth, integrity:
A long career ruled by honesty
by Gordon Leidner
Mr. Liedner’s complete short essay is something we should all read.
old photo of Michael J. Rossi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFqgoGE-6ZI (at 2.00 mark)
To my fellow Canadian:
Thank You to “Intrigue” of Ontario for finding that photo and news clip.
I have waited over 2 years for that photo to hopefully prove what I have been saying all along about the NY pedophile who I witnessed mass murdering victims during the late 70’s. You have been a tremendous help.
-Felix Francis Marcus (of St. Johns Newfoundland)
You be the judge.
Is this the same Rossi from 1987 and 2010?
http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/deepquarry/media/IsthisthesameRossi1987ILamp2010NY_zps89796080.jpg.html
They are NOT the same person. I stated a while back that I had seen a picture of Rossi, and couldn’t recall where I had seen it…..Well,the Youtube video that you posted shows the same pic i was referring to.
Mr. Snoopy,
THIS IS MASS MURDER AND IT SHOULD BE TREATED AS SUCH.
Are you willing to bet human life, and the molestations of our nations children on your opinion? Thus far you are the only person who has said that it is not him. You said you are a retired school teacher, you of all people should realize the importance of keeping our children safe…. furthermore the UNIQUE profile and EYES, posture, complexion, apparent height, age and sexual orientation of this man in NY is exactly the same profile of the Michael Rossi I did my best to avoid in that quarry. It was a publicized fact that Rossi went east after the trial. I am a witness several dozen times over to both Michael J. Rossi and others….
THE PLUS SIDE OF YOUR OPINION.
maybe it is a good thing that you stated your opinion. Although my family and my friends believed me; I have had over 3 decades of people arguing with me, and calling me names over my eyewitness claims. I will take this moment to state that people who argued against and belittled my eyewitness account are exactly why I “folded” years ago….however I fold no more. We are talking about mass murder, molestations, government criminality of false history, and the safety of our citizens;especially OUR children…. in ANY situation such as the aforementioned probable cause shall outweigh ANY OPINION. I am asking you to please not overstate the value of opinions vs. public safety.
Regards,
-Felix Francis Marcus , eyewitness to mass murder.
I totally agree that this is mass murder, and that a great injustice has been committed. I feel that Mike Rossi, Cram, and others were involved in these atrocities. I was just stating that the Mike Rossi of NY is not the same one that you encountered. Yes, there is a strong resemblance, but had I not read about the fact that Rossi was a high school drop out, and had a long rap sheet, I too would think that they were one and the same.
If you do a search for “Mike Rossi” in Illinois, you will find several who are in the same age group. He lives in the western suburbs of Chicago. This has been stated many times in the media.
I have never doubted what you encountered, and feel that you are angry that I said that NY Rossi is a different person. I did not mean to offend you.
After looking back on a few of the WGN clips that spoke about Gacy and accomplices, I noted that the reporter Larry Potash said that Rossi lived in the Chicago area……So, I decided to call the station and verify. And they said with 100% certainty he has lived in the Chicago area, and continues to live there now. The Mike Rossi of NY, although a disgusting creature, is not the same vile creature you had contact with.
You seem to be under the impression that I don’t want justice served. You are wrong. I just want the right scumbag to pay.
If you doubt what I am saying, you should contact WGN for yourself. Hopefully, you will find the truth..
Snoopy, I am not mad. I am just trying to convince you and others who will feel the same as you. You are entitled to your opinion and I am sure that there will be others who agree with you. Here is my prediction; in a couple of days people will stop looking at the pictures I posted and the police will keep pretending that nothing happened.
DEF OF witness
/ˈwitnis/
noun: witness; plural noun: witnesses
1. a person who sees an event, typically a crime or accident, take place.
-WGN is not a witness.
-Larry Potash is not a witness.
-Newspaper stories are not witnesses.
-Investigators are not witnesses.
Only a witness is a witness.
I am a witness…….and until an identical looking Rossi is produced then the NY pedophile is one of the mass murderers I witnessed dozens of times at Deep Quarry both with and without Gacy.
Look at those photos, the odds are very very slim that it is not him. Most incriminating is his unique profile, and that is something I know because I am an actual witness, and until this story becomes mainstream more witnesses will be difficult to find.
This is mass murder….with probable cause….opinions should have marginal impact at best. The police need to stop lying to us.
WITNESS STAND ANYONE?
Regards,
-Felix Francis Marcus , eyewitness to mass murder.
WE NEED GOOD HONEST LAWYERS TO HELP US NOW.
Hi Snoopy,
In regards to the matter of where is the real Rossi now;
There is one extremely important ideology that emerges from what you brought up. I will momentarily play the devil’s advocate and go along with the media being correct. In the slim event that I am wrong about Rossi in NY and that an identical doppelganger Rossi truly exists in Illinois…then it brings to public spotlight the fact that what a dangerous failure our government was/is in regards to these secret mass murder cleanups. It is a tragic failure of the system when witnesses have to find mass murderers on their own while the government continues to LIE to the people by saying that nothing happened. Under constitutional law it is ordinarily a job for the police to investigate murder, especially cold blooded mass murder… however when the police fail us in order to hide the criminality of their own organization… and endanger the citizens then it is time for a major change. Some people dislike lawyers, and I don’t know why…but this situation NOW demands lawyer intervention…lawyers are citizens too…. and right now all the citizens… including as many lawyers as possible need to kick Uncle Sam’s ass right up to his arrogant eyeballs over these secret cleanups that have unleashed mass murders upon society with no recourse. The government has clearly overstepped their authority in this matter and they won’t stop doing it. It is apparent that the people can’t fix this…. but lawyers can.
Regards,
-Felix Francis Marcus , eyewitness to mass murder.
EMAIL VOLLEY that shows that Michael Rossi is still one of the most highly protected mass murderers ever in history. It is not the honest cops on the streets doing this; it is the politicians at the top who order the police to protect politicians first and the false history they create. Now we all know where the citizens truly stand in the minds of the politically omnipotent.
-Felix F. Marcus
————————————————————————–
Oh come on now Mr. (removed),
Only a fool would ignore mass murder, you did not get to where you are today by being a fool, therefore you are no fool.
Therefore only a few possibilities exist to justify your answers.
1) You believe I am off my rocker and you are humoring me.
2) You are friends with Mr. Rossi directly or through proxy.
3) You are simply following asinine orders to ignore the whole situation.
4) You are buying time while the government is watching this psychopath.
I do NOT merely suspect Mr. Rossi as you put it; I KNOW he murdered people, beyond a shadow of a doubt. I stand behind my eyewitness account and welcome ANY lawsuit that contests my accusations because defamation is only defamation when it is a lie. Because your Mr. Rossi, and yes….thanks to Illinois’ blind accidental stupidity HE IS NOW YOUR Mr. Rossi and because he shares some social behavior parallel to his mentor Gacy himself, such as child molestation, it compels you on a humanitarian level to contact other agencies who can bring about a resolution to get this dangerous psychopath off the streets. Just because Illinois has mastered the art of the perfect corruption at the highest possible levels does not mean that NY should follow suit. We all know that the FBI should always be brought in on matters of mass murder; unfortunately the federal government, with the best intentions in mind, assisted a few well meaning Illinois law enforcers with the phony Daniel Noe “mountain man” story therefore you and your NY brethren may be left to deal with this psychopath on your own. In 2010 Illinois lawmen took a page right out of the 1979 playbook in which they secretly, illegally and stupidly cleaned up murder sites in which they blamed John Wayne Gacy 100% on everything. There was a time I almost understood why, but I do so no more.
I feel for your towns plight however your answer below is considerably out of balance with mass murder.
Based upon your answer below;
The recipe for getting away with mass murder is to simply perform heinous crimes in a crooked county and then move to another state.
After 34 years of being lied to by Cook and Dupage County regarding Gacy and company I have had all I can take, and I am all in, and there will be no more folding by me when so many innocent people died and so many innocent children have been molested by this mass murdering disciple of Gacy’s who you have been forced to secretly accept into your locality to teach your children. Illinois deserves the biggest kick in the ass ever and you should not let these pompous jackasses get away with this.
These words from you are not just sadly profound;
“no proof that the two man are one in the same”
but they are evil on a unprecedented level that transcends all that is just, moral and honest. Illinois has raised the bar of stupidity to the greatest heights obtainable, no other group of dimwits will ever top this. I am not mad at you. I am frustrated. I do realize that you and your entire town are victims too, as are we…. it is too bad that you refuse to acknowledge it.
Keep your eye on molester and mass murderer Michael J. Rossi and please (words removed) at the first justifiable opportunity, he is a subhuman dangerous psychopath, the most dangerous kind, the kind that appears successful, polished and educated. If he is your friend I am sorry but he is not the man you think he is. I am lucky to be alive when others were not so lucky. I still vividly remember their faces, their unusual stressed body language as they unknowingly entered into their final minutes of life, their motionless bodies laying there, or propped up while Cram and Rossi “tended” to them. What in the hell is the matter with everyone defending this monster………. including you now!
Regards,
-Felix Francis Marcus , eyewitness to mass murder.
—————————————————————————-
Mr. Marcus,
I have received and read your e-mails. Michael Rossi does not reside within my agencies jurisdiction, is suspected of no crimes within our jurisdiction, no longer works with our jurisdiction and any crimes you suspect him of happened well outside of our jurisdiction. There for we would have no probable cause to start any kind of investigation into him. I do acknowledge there is a resemblance with the Michael Rossi picture from the Gacy case and the former principal here, again we would have no cause to investigate crimes you allege happened in a different state. We have no similar outstanding/unsolved cases like this locally and there is no proof the two man are one in the same. You time would be better spent with your local authorities.
(Name and title removed)
——————————————————————————
Mr.(removed),
What is the matter? Do you actually believe the filthy corrupt Illinois police that nothing happened at Deep Quarry?
Situations like this are exactly why vigilantes are made, anarchists are made, why people close the door on the police when they come around, and why the police are viewed with disdain by many.
(many words removed)
Regards,
-Felix Francis Marcus , eyewitness to mass murder.
Let us also look at the following words from the email (above) sent to me by the high ranking police officer in Michael Rossi’s locality
(Mr. Marcus,
I have received and read your e-mails. Michael Rossi does not reside within my agencies jurisdiction……………. We have no similar outstanding/unsolved cases like this locally and there is no proof the two man are one in the same. You time would be better spent with your local authorities.)
My take on this;
Michael J. Rossi has lived and still lives in the official metropolitan area of NYC for a long time. Rossi’s home is in a suburb of NYC. Rossi has access to ten of millions of potential victims within a 1 hour drive of his home. He has experience murdering, mentoring, assisting, and recruiting teenagers as evidenced by his affiliation with David F. Cram. He chose the perfect profession to hone his craft by being in an educational workforce in a suburb of a major city. Why on earth would the police disregard these facts?
The pompous upper echelons of our government who illegally order the brotherhood of police around nationwide has an illegal stranglehold on the American people. We are not just victims of these mass murderers but victims of the governments illegal audacity also.
Who dies next ?
Regards,
-Felix Francis Marcus , eyewitness to mass murder.
You be the judge.
Is this the same Rossi from 1978 and 2010?
http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/deepquarry/media/IsthisthesameRossi1987ILamp2010NY_zps89796080.jpg.html
MILLION DOLLARS A NO GO.
I asked a prominent attorney recently if he had interviewed Michael J. Rossi. Here is his response:
“No he wouldn’t talk, and claimed he was offered over 1 million for his story”
My answer to the prominent attorneys response of
“No he wouldn’t talk, and claimed he was offered over 1 million for his story”.
Mr. (name removed),
(words rem’d) Rossi won’t talk because he is a mass murderer at Deep Quarry and perhaps other places as well. No amount of money will ever entice a mass murderer who has complete protected freedom by the arrogant stupidity of our government. Starting 4 years ago I had to find Rossi and Cram on my own because the police will not help me without indicting themselves (as a law branch) for dozens of laws that they (as a law branch) broke on behalf of extremely powerful, arrogant and overrated political figures. Mr. Rossi is welcome to sue me for supposed defamation any time … he will be protected by the false history paid for in the blood, safety and welfare of our nations unsuspecting innocent.
Is this the Rossi who won’t talk? see link.
http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/deepquarry/media/IsthisthesameRossi1987ILamp2010NY_zps89796080.jpg.html
(words rem’d) If at that point you do not believe me and perceive me as a liar and storyteller then perhaps a good question for Mr. Rossi may be just exactly why won’t he sue me for supposed defamation? I have probably created over 1000 documents, postings, and emails many of which virtually destroying his credibility.
Sadly, this should be an open and shut case. A man whose alibis are sadly provided in the historical documents fabricated by the audacity of a well meaning government with blinders on… and perpetuated by the unsuspecting public in many forms of media for decades.
Here are 2 questions (amongst MANY) for Tom Dart and John Zaruba regarding Deep Quarry:
1.Have they ever investigated the fact that I can describe the exact appearance and exact attire of perhaps as many as one dozen victims who I witnessed abducted and struck down by Cram and Rossi. I sincerely doubt if that information was ever released to the public, so how is it that I can do this without one question being raised. The most meticulously documented excavation of a crime scene ever (at Summerdale) should contain those records.
2.How is it that I was able to provide a murder weapon to the authorities on Aug 15, 2012; a 0.75 DIA X 27.62” long Aluminum rod exactly like the ones I saw in Gacys trunk? I will bet that info was never released to the public either.; now don’t you think that my possession of this murder weapon, which I unknowingly took from Cram and Rossi in 1977 mandates some questioning?
(words removed)…… These are powerful people I am messing with, with great power comes great lies, with great lies comes even greater lies until something boils over, and in Illinois clout will trump the truth for the truth is only the truth when the government says it is.
(link to this website rem’d)
here is another website.
https://imageshack.us/user/turboquark
If you still wish to disbelieve what I call the truth and add to the already enormous stinkpile of lies that continue to buffer and protect Mr. Rossi and his friends then by all means publish what you wish. I would not blame you one bit. However you will be helping the cause of what I call “historical legitimizing” whereas if you unknowingly perpetuate someone’s else lies often enough, in enough modes, it “becomes” the truth. You will then bring a smile to at least 2 mass murderers faces. You will also be helping to keep the criminals in OUR government safe who protect all the criminals in this matter…. AT ANY COST, EVEN HUMAN LIFE AND THE MOLESTATIONS OF OUR NATIONS CHILDREN.
Regards,
Felix Francis Marcus
Hi, I think your website might be having browser compatibility issues.
When I look at your website in Chrome, it looks fine but when opening in Internet
Explorer, it has some overlapping. I just wanted to give you a quick heads up!
Other then that, very good blog!
PLEASE SIGN THESE 2 PETITIONS.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/demand-for-a-public-deposition
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/alleged-deep-quarry-john-wayne-gacy-and-associates
Thank You.
How exactly to whole level in Forehead Run two?
This email was sent to me from a posting by PeterT3i regarding my Gacy Rossi Cram photobucket account. Working alone PeterT3i came to the same conclusion as I did.
from PeterT3i;
( Wow! I was reading about the JWG murders and it led me to questions of accomplices, which led me to Rossi. Like you I found the young pic and the principal pic and using photoshop, I proportionally superimposed one image on top of the other and used the opacity feature to make both pics visible so that I could further adjust the images proportionally. THIS WAS BEFORE FINDING YOUR PHOTOBUCKET PAGE! and although I am no expert I emphatically say that it is the same person.)
Thank You PeterT3i.I hope Peter sends his photoshop findings to Becker-Stephenson, Tom Dart, and John Zaruba as well as the police departments in Michael Rossi’s locality which includes the NYC metropolitan area.
My partner and I stumbled over here different page and
thought I might as well check things out. I like what I see so now
i’m following you. Look forward to looking at your web
page yet again.
WHATS YOUR GAME supposedly JACKI?
Why are you INTENTIONALLY posting this overused paragraph upon an otherwise fantastic website? These exact words that you used show up thousands of times on the internet? WHY dumbass and what is your game ?
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WHAT’S YOUR GAME JIBBERISH JERSEY?
Why are you INTENTIONALLY imposing your nonsensical gibberish upon an otherwise fantastic website?
-Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to the mass murders at Deep Quarry.
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WHAT’S YOUR GAME JIBBERISH JERSEY?
Why are you INTENTIONALLY imposing your nonsensical gibberish upon an otherwise fantastic website?
-Felix Francis Marcus, eyewitness to the mass murders at Deep Quarry.
I’m impressed, I have to admit. Rarely do I come across a blog that’s equally educative
and interesting, and without a doubt, you’ve hit the nail on the head.
The issue is an issue that too few people are speaking intelligently about.
Now i’m very happy that I found this during my hunt
for something concerning this.
WHATS YOUR GAME supposedly KELVIN?
Why are you INTENTIONALLY posting this overused paragraph upon an otherwise fantastic website? The exact words that you used in your posting show up thousands of times on the internet? WHY dumbass and what is your game ?
Come on Chris please do something about this idiot jackass.
ROSSI WROTE A BOOK entitled
“MURDER ON THE MOUNTAIN”
http://www.hudsonhousepub.com/9781587769580.htm
Murderer Gacy had his paintings and murderer Rossi got his book,
Talk about rubbing it into the faces of the humanity!
I will not post on the website until someone signs my petitions.
-Felix Francis Marcus-EYEWITNESS TO MASS MURDER.
I will not post on THIS website anymore until someone signs my petitions.
Otherwise you are all calling me a liar.
-Felix Francis Marcus-EYEWITNESS TO MASS MURDER.
Been gone a while. Only reason I remembered with all the hell I’m going through right now is because cook county sheriffs dept can’t seem to keep out of the media lately. My wife was telling me why the name rang a bell which isn’t hard to forget but seems the county is on TV a lot. Must be breeding ground for a bunch of lowlifes. Anyway, what’s this petition about?
What a vile creature you’ve unearthed. Stay safe, Felix.
BE SAFE FROM WHICH “VILE CREATURE”?
Thank you for your concern regarding my safety; however tragically befitting of this disgusting governmental debacle of mass murders, multiple mass murderers, 3 decades of mass molestations, and their unwilling yet willing filthy protectors; is the fact that I do not know just exactly which vile creatures to be safe from? THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE COPS ON THE STREETS OR THEIR IMMEDIATE SUPERVISORS who must blindly follow orders.
Are these the people that I must fear?
-Michael J. Rossi, Deep Quarry mass murderer?
-Friends and family of mass murderer Michael J. Rossi?
-Friends and family of Deep Quarry mass murderer David F. Cram?
-Third abductor at Deep Quarry?
-Friends and family of the third abductor at Deep Quarry?
-The upper echelons of our LAWBREAKING government and their OBEDIENT gunslingers, and their OBEDIENT lawyers? All of whom have only one mission in mind and that is to protect the GOVERNMENTAL MISFITS who are acting more like THIRD WORLD SUPREME LEADER SECRET CRIMINALS who ILLEGALLY MASTERMINDED this debacle regarding secret cleanups of incorrectly accessed John Wayne Gacy mass murder sites for 3 LONGGGG decades.
If I get murdered as several members of my family fears may happen, history may repeat itself and the DAMNEDEST of filthy governments in IL, NY and the feds will surely lie about the circumstances BUT MOST LIKELY WILL simply say nothing. The filthy upper tiers of our government gave asinine orders in 1979, 2010 and for-fucking-ever to do nothing, record nothing, and say nothing. Are they corrupt …yes…..of course they are…extremely corrupt!
Many involved in this apex failure of the criminal system have NOW rendered themselves secret criminals beyond any reasonable excuse who are clearly out for themselves AND their buddies for who in their right minds would protect this “vile creature” as you call him, this John Wayne Gacy protégé AND HIS BLOOD THIRSTY BUDDIES who lured other peoples loved ones DAY AFTER DAY, FOR SEVERAL YEARS, painfully smashing their helpless bodies with heavy metal rods….ramming stones down the silently screaming bleeding throats of someone’s beloved child……BLUDGEONING TO DEATH someone’s sibling…..BRUTALLY KILLING someone’s friend and family member….TORTURING CHOKED VICTIMS FIGHTING FOR THEIR LIVES…killing lovers…killing ANYONE……. in that lonely quarry of evil death……. and then coldly disposing of them as if they were garbage….destroying families FOR LIFE….all while the government MAKES UP STORIES! Who in the living fuck does our government think it is to do this to us…AND TO NOW HIDE THIS FROM THE PEOPLE……FOREVER? ! ? ! ?
SO I ASK; SAFE FROM WHICH VILE CREATURE? THE COLD-BLOODED MURDERERS THEMSELVES….. OR THEIR TEPID-BLOODED PROTECTORS IN OUR IRREVERSIBLY CORRUPT GOVERNMENT? ALL will get you killed and then they will lie or look the other way to justify it…as history clearly shows …as history clearly repeats…with more lies, more stories and loads of calculated elision, paid for in blood, misery and taxes.
NO LEGITIMATE government would HIDE THIS FROM THE PEOPLE whilst allowing mass murderers to run free for 3 decades? NO HUMAN BEING WITH ANY COMPASSION WOULD ALLOW THIS; therefore we have NO LEGITIMATE GOVERNMENT, only a bunch of irresponsible brainwashed lunatics at the upper tiers of FAKE AMERICAN ROYALTY who dare to call themselves “ethical”; who dare to spew orders of utmost pomposity to the police who administer this river of garbage, this river of death, this evil river of senseless molestations ALL DESIGNED to strictly keep the government out of trouble for the laws that they broke and still break. That is NOT what the laws are for King Jack…ass!
When a government fails to investigate HEINOUS crimes AND ALLOWS MASS MURDERERS AND MOLESTERS TO REMAIN FREE…FOR LIFE…. and does so purely to hide ITS OWN CRIMINALITY…then it fails to be a government, and it officially becomes a criminal state.
AM I safe…NO.. of course not… nobody is safe…only the criminals are barely safe in a criminal state. This state and federal CRIMINALOCRACY that these pompous lunatics have crafted purely for their own selfish reasons is a sham of the once magnificent government this Illinois government once was…destroyed by selfish politicians who simply cannot follow the same laws that they themselves force the rest of us to follow. May this hypocrisy of a law branch implode upon its own worthless self and topple over crushed by its own stupidity and corruption. The upper tiers of the law branch of Illinois does NOT deserve to exist as long as criminals are in charge for it becomes a useless entity crafted by the criminals, for the criminals who publicly dare to call themselves “lawmen”.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE COPS ON THE STREETS OR THEIR IMMEDIATE SUPERVISORS who must blindly follow orders, like us they are victims too, it is about their idiot bosses way at the top of the fool chain, the ones who float like swamp gas on the hot air they expel…some of whom belong in prison for they too… are “vile creatures” disguised as “The Esteemed”….and they WILL GET YOU KILLED AND THEN DENY ANY RESPONSIBILITY AS ALL GOOD LIARS with really good friends in high places do. Where are we in respect to those government jackasses who sit in high places… we are at the other end of the topography…FIGURATIVELY we are still at the bottom of the lake where those mass murderers dumped us, the FREE mass murderers, FREED FOR LIFE, and Uncle Sam doesn’t give a flying fuck just as long as his loyal subjects keeps their freedom and all their fabricated history intact.
Felix Francis Marcus, Eyewitness to mass murder.
Witness stand anyone?
Mr. I,
Please tell me “safe from whom”?
What do you know that may help me?
email; deepquarry@yahoo.com
-Felix
Just in general, Felix. I’ve followed your activity since last summer and only wish for your wellness. You’re a very brave person and I admire your pursuit of the truth and justice.
Hey Link, just to let you know I did send your info to higher channel in Washington. It got stamped out and the representatives will not comment or say why. Hope your well.
After I originally commented I seem to have clicked on the -Notify me when new comments are added- checkbox
and from now on whenever a comment is added I recieve 4 emails with the
same comment. There has to be a means you can remove me from that
service? Cheers!
Goood web site you’ve got here.. It’s difficult to
find exxcellent writing like yours nowadays. I truly apprecizte people like you!
Take care!!
This is a copy of an email I sent to Joe Klest attorney, over a year ago in response to a short correspondence we had until I gave up.
On Monday, August 4, 2014 3:07 PM, Deep Quarry wrote to Joe Klest, Attorney
Mr. Klest,
You may not believe everything that I am going to tell you for a multitude of reasons. Rossi won’t talk because he is a mass murderer at Deep Quarry and perhaps other places as well. No amount of money will ever entice a mass murderer who has complete protected freedom by the arrogant stupidity of our government. Starting 4 years ago I had to find Rossi and Cram on my own because the police will not help me without indicting themselves (as a law branch) for dozens of laws that they (as a law branch) broke on behalf of extremely powerful, arrogant and overrated political figures. Mr. Rossi is welcome to sue me for supposed defamation any time … he will be protected by the false history paid for in the blood, safety and welfare of our nations unsuspecting innocent.
Is this the Rossi who won’t talk? see link.
http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/deepquarry/media/IsthisthesameRossi1987ILamp2010NY_zps89796080.jpg.html
Please read the comments at that website by deepquarry (myself) and view the other photos as well if you will.
If at that point you do not believe me and perceive me as liar and storyteller then perhaps a good question for Mr. Rossi may be just exactly why won’t he sue me for supposed defamation? I have probably created over 1000 documents, postings, and emails many of which virtually destroying his credibility.
Sadly, this should be an open and shut case. A man whose alibis are sadly provided in the historical documents fabricated by the audacity of a well meaning government with blinders on… and perpetuated by the unsuspecting public in many forms of media for decades.
Here are 2 questions (amongst MANY) for Tom Dart and John Zaruba regarding Deep Quarry:
1.Have they ever investigated the fact that I can describe the exact appearance and exact attire of perhaps as many as one dozen victims who I witnessed abducted and struck down by Cram and Rossi. I sincerely doubt if that information was ever released to the public, so how is it that I can do this without one question being raised. The most meticulously documented excavation of a crime scene ever (at Summerdale) should contain those records.
2.How is it that I was able to provide a murder weapon to the authorities on Aug 15, 2012; a 0.75 DIA X 27.62” long Aluminum rod exactly like the ones I saw in Gacys trunk? I will bet that info was never released to the public either.; now don’t you think that my possession of this murder weapon, which I unknowingly took from Cram and Rossi in 1977 mandates some questioning?
It should be fairly simple to determine if I am lying unless of course our misguided wayward government intentionally took no records in 1979; after all the illegal words that they keep eagerly spewing to me since 1980 are the ambiguous words “there are no records”.
If I haven’t lost your interest in the truth yet please go to the website below and start reading (from the bottom up) my postings labeled “link” and labeled “none”. Keep in mind that in the beginning of my postings in July of 2012. I thought that I was going to be arrested for spilling the beans on powerful people, so I temporarily panicked and withdrew my story out of pure fear. My family thought that I was going to disappear, in fact they still do. My wife and family still fears for my life. These are powerful people I am messing with, with great power comes great lies, with great lies comes even greater lies until something boils over, and in Illinois clout will trump the truth for the truth is only the truth when the government says it is.
http://shadowreports.com/2011/02/07/exclusive-find-the-bodies-if-you-can-should-the-john-wayne-gacy-case-be-reopened/
here is another website.
https://imageshack.us/user/turboquark
If you still wish to disbelieve what I call the truth and add to the already enormous stinkpile of lies that continue to buffer and protect Mr. Rossi and his friends then by all means publish what you wish. I would not blame you one bit. However you will be helping the cause of what I call “historical legitimizing” whereas if you unknowingly perpetuate someone’s else lies often enough, in enough modes, it “becomes” the truth. You will then bring a smile to at least 2 mass murderers faces. You will also be helping to keep the criminals in OUR government safe who protect all the criminals in this matter…. AT ANY COST, EVEN HUMAN LIFE AND THE MOLESTATIONS OF OUR NATIONS CHILDREN.
Regards,
Felix Francis (Frank) Marcus
The woman in the picture next to Rob Piest is not his mother, Elizabeth. It’s his sister Kerry.
I was almost a victim of Gacy’s.
On new years day 1980 I was on my way back to KCMO after a stay in NYC.
While I was at the train station in Chicago waiting for my connection. I was approached by a man fitting Gacy’s description. I Had gone to the benches in the darker part of the station with a cart full of my luggage. He came thru a side door and sat down next to me. I will never forget what he said to me.
” you look like a dancer” ” are you hungry? i’ll buy you something to eat”
“come on we’ll be back before your train arrives” I grew very uneasy stood and walked away as fast as i could.
I went to a security person and told him a strange man tried to get me to go with him. When i turned and looked for him he was gone.
I never really thought about it until about 18 years later when i read Killer Clown and saw his picture. Was he let out of jail on new years day 1980?
Fred S.